A pattern to the current German collapse (and probable cure in sight)

[redrum68]

@Dalwin - So I agree that the longer the front the more that shuffling becomes a major issue currently and improving that could have a drastic effect on the AI.

On the other hand, I haven't really seen Germany push hard in the south vs north. I haven't played minor nations to watch AI vs AI but the last Soviet game I played the southern portion of the front actually broke first as the Germans didn't have many troops along the Romania border. Below is a screenshot where AI Germany declares war on me (Soviets) in Feb so a few months into the war where I've pushed through Romania and Hungary all the way to Vienna (with a giant encirclement in what's left of the Hungary).

The 2 biggest problems I saw was massive front shuffling and major lack of a german air force. They also didn't distribute enough troops in Romania which made it easy to walk through them. Another interesting point is that Slovakia that is part of the Axis didn't join the war (not sure if that's normal at this point or not).

 

[Misaka_Complex]

I'd say the large front lines are a major cause of disaster for the AI.

Make that two large fronts + Africa, and travelling to and from Asia would be a bonus as well.

Another interesting point is that Slovakia that is part of the Axis didn't join the war (not sure if that's normal at this point or not).

I don't think that there is a way to declare war on puppets as long as their masters don't call them to war and its usually a huge problem in random MP games.

 

[Louella]

I know anecdotes aren't data, but there was something in one game I played recently as the Soviet Union, while testing a mod, where I saw something that I was surprised at.

I had put several armies on the border with Poland, and then built forts along that line. After the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact occurred, I did not move any of the armies, just kept them there while the forts built up.

Eventually, Germany broke the pact, and attacked, pushing through Poland, and then hitting my line of fortified positions. They made several assaults with 0 progress, and then something surprising happened.

AI Germany withdrew their army to the border between Germany and occupied Poland, and stayed there.

It was as if they'd thought "this isn't working, need to try something else".

Romania wasn't in the Axis at this point though. I thought they might join, and then AI Germany would attack via that way, but they never did, for some reason.

 

[Killerrabbit]

Some specific things for Germany in an offhands game, so that things like front shuffling etc cancel out since the SOV AI does the same could be:
1) Suboptimal Garrison AI
2) Willingness to commit troops to distant theather (Asia, Africa) without factoring in the feasibility of them reaching there due to enemy naval supremacy... this problem compounds since they might continue to send troops that are mostly sunk to fill the "needs" on that front.
3) Reinforcing all sections of fronts equally per province without taking into account allies that also are on the same fronts. This could be indicated by a breakdown in the north (Poland and Baltics).

 

[Dalwin]

I don't think that there is a way to declare war on puppets as long as their masters don't call them to war and its usually a huge problem in random MP games.

This used to be true but was changed in 1.3.3. It is in the patch notes and I have seen it in effect.

I know anecdotes aren't data, but there was something in one game I played recently as the Soviet Union, while testing a mod, where I saw something that I was surprised at.

Anecdotes are data. They are not proof because they represent only limited points of data.

Some specific things for Germany in an offhands game, so that things like front shuffling etc cancel out since the SOV AI does the same.

This is flawed logic. Shuffling does not cancel out just because both sides do it.
a.) it is worse for the Germans since the Russians have a significantly greater number of units on the Russian front than do the Germans. Fewer troops means it is easy to get gaps which means more shuffling. This actually snowballs since in the current version the shuffling is executed very inefficiently. This inefficiency is the part that should improve in 1.4.
b.)it is not as bad for the Russians since their position allows large tracts of land to be forfeited without them collapsing. Germany's position is much more fragile in that sense. As the Russians fall back, the line becomes longer which further exaggerates Germany's disadvantages.

 

[blusarge27]

AI Germany withdrew their army to the border between Germany and occupied Poland, and stayed there.

This I've never seen before, on any front anywhere. Is it possible they used the fallback order in the BP? It's the only thing I can think of that makes sense. I wonder what conditions could have caused them to use it (assuming that's the case). Where you attacking at all?

 

[Louella]

This I've never seen before, on any front anywhere. Is it possible they used the fallback order in the BP? It's the only thing I can think of that makes sense. I wonder what conditions could have caused them to use it (assuming that's the case). Where you attacking at all?

I have no idea how or why they pulled back, only that they did.

I wasn't attacking though, and the armies did not have a battle plan assigned, like I hadn't set a front line or anything, just moved them into position then left them. do you think that had something to do with it ?

 

[Drewoid13]

I know anecdotes aren't data, but there was something in one game I played recently as the Soviet Union, while testing a mod, where I saw something that I was surprised at.

I had put several armies on the border with Poland, and then built forts along that line. After the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact occurred, I did not move any of the armies, just kept them there while the forts built up.

Eventually, Germany broke the pact, and attacked, pushing through Poland, and then hitting my line of fortified positions. They made several assaults with 0 progress, and then something surprising happened.

AI Germany withdrew their army to the border between Germany and occupied Poland, and stayed there.

It was as if they'd thought "this isn't working, need to try something else".

Romania wasn't in the Axis at this point though. I thought they might join, and then AI Germany would attack via that way, but they never did, for some reason.

My brother and I are playing a UK France game. He built a ton of forts along his German Belgian and Italian borders. Ai hasn't pushed either of these lines and just shuffles troops around.

Instead Italy landed an invasion just behind the alps border forts.

Even when we pulled troops off the fortified line to counter the invasion, Germany never pushed it. So I've got 4 divisions standing off 10+ just because of the level 5 and 6 forts.

Does the ai just not attack forts?

 

[blusarge27]

I wasn't attacking though, and the armies did not have a battle plan assigned, like I hadn't set a front line or anything, just moved them into position then left them. do you think that had something to do with it ?

Well, I don't usually use battle plans either, though I do assign them a front to get them in position, and then cancel it. So I don't think it's that, could be wrong though. Would have made sense if you were attacking and winning and so they decided to fall back. But, yeah, strange ...
Maybe if you see it again, tag to the AI and see if you can spot anything with the BP, or something.

 

[Bryartuck]

Yeah, for some reason German AI doesn't seem to put much priority on the north on the Eastern Front. I was recently playing a game as Hungary and figured with my help the AI shouldn't do too bad. My forces were clustered in the center and I was focused on microing them to try to push back the Soviets. At one point I looked up the the Soviets had pushed through to Memel in the north. Fortunately for me the Russian AI hadn't gotten around to taking Latvia (they were still neutral). I used that as an anvil to my hammer and pushed my forces north to cut off the Soviet advance, then turned west and was able to take out a fair portion of the Soviet army. I think a few managed to escape through the Baltic from Memel, but I got most of them. The point is, with all those Hungarian forces in the center, there should have been plenty of German forces to hold the north, but there wasn't.