A Paradox Christmas Carol

[unmerged(91061)]

Yes

Your answer pleases me and I will consider it an awesome Christmas present.

If I understand it correctly, if say, a Hungarian state emerges from the ashes of Austria-Hungary, and sees a province in Slovakia that's even 10% (or whatever the minimum percent is) Hungarian populated, they will go for that province?

As I argued in in my posts, I think Paradox is correct in not to go adding such features and keep cores in the Vanilla Vicky2 static (except I presume for certain historical events). This allows them to maintain their goal of creating a largely historical Base on which modders can build. Just look at the opposite design philosophy in HoI3 having an effect on Diplomacy, rather then following HoI2's trend in keeping the diplomatic blocs largely static (never see Britain Ally with Japan for instance), HoI3 made alliances much more fluid, and people complained that it was simply ridiculous to see the USA ally with the USSR and other such combinations.
Likewise, allowing for fluid, dynamic cores in Vicky2 could yield such ridiculous results as an AI Austria ruling all of Italy as if it were it's homeland, the USA controlling all of Mexico and the Mexicans not revolting, or Germany having cores in China. Such things are better left to modders who have the vast amount of time required to fine balance such destabilising systems. Also, it allows players to "opt in" to the absurdity of Japanese becoming the dominant culture of Indonesia, rather then "opting out".

Modders should have no trouble creating such a system of fluid cores, however, because as King has shown, provincial population proportion can be an event trigger, and add_core can be an event effect. Expect it to be in VIPicky2.

 

[OHgamer]

A perfect balance methinks - flexible enough with the more moddable nature of the Clausewitz engine to allow any player to create any ahistorical nation they might fancy out of their conquests or create potential "fragment" nations to split up their rivals should they defeat them in war.

 

[RELee]

My good friends and I whole-heartedly approve of this special Christmas post.

Merry Christmas to you all, and may God bless all your efforts.

 

[Tormodius]

Bonus diary yay thanks! best chrismas present i got

And i gotta say its a neat design idea considering CSA, Bavaria, annexations and all that.

I liked the many cultures in Vicky and hope for yankee and dixies in north America like it was.
Will it be like that? or maybe moddable so i can just call them what i want

 

[unmerged(68110)]

Sounds like Mother Russia will really be Mother Russia.

Tsar of All Slavs, anyone?

 

[Emp_Palpatine]

I have been to Barcelona if you look on some of the late 19th centruy buildings you will see the shield of Aragon on them. The symbology of Catalan national awakening is there,

I might be wrong, but wasn't Catalonia Generality still in existence, despite massive loss of autonomy under the Bourbons, at least in name? So it could be normal for the spanish state to put catalonian arms on buildings, national awakening or not.

By the way, having the possibility to choose the policies regarding "minorities" (think situation of flemish culture in Belgium) or national component (German sub-states, US/CS States, Spain components). Having differencies between centralized states and federatives one would be awesome.

 

[CatalanNation]

I might be wrong, but wasn't Catalonia Generality still in existence, despite massive loss of autonomy under the Bourbons, at least in name? So it could be normal for the spanish state to put catalonian arms on buildings, national awakening or not.

By the way, having the possibility to choose the policies regarding "minorities" (think situation of flemish culture in Belgium) or national component (German sub-states, US/CS States, Spain components). Having differencies between centralized states and federatives one would be awesome.

Catalan Generalty was founded in 1359 but abolished in 1715 by the first Bourbon King of Spain after the Spanish succession war, and was not restored until 1931. The Catalan coat of arms in most of the Modernist buildings that King refers to in Barcelona are due to the so-called "renaissance" of the nationalistic Catalan movement there that also influenced the artistic movements, that began approximately at about 1850-60 and is up to date, but had its foundations immediately later than the Spanish independence war against the French, that is, the 1820.

So yes, I'm of course not an impartial part, but I think to be historically accurate, Catalonia should be a possible revolter since the beginning of the game timeframe as it was with Vicky I, but with a low militancy as a result of what King said.

 

[GregoryTheBruce]

Since this is a feature still-in-development I have a question and proposal.

Will it be possible for a culture to be a member of more than one culture group? Or at least possible for cultures to change groups? If not, could this be considered?

Mutable culture groups would be a great feature, in my opinion. What if, for example, the Irish were a member of the British culture group but broke away in a nationalist revolt, as you mentioned? If they maintained independence and perhaps grew to some level of international recognition, maybe they could get their own culture group, symbolizing international recognition of their sovereignty? To take your USA/CSA example, a CSA that wins the Civil War and maybe a war or two past that might split off into its own culture group, preventing the USA from one-shot annexing it in the future.

Either way, I absolutely love the culture group/union tag idea imported from EUIII in (IMHO) a much more effective way for the 19th century!

 

[King]

Since this is a feature still-in-development I have a question and proposal.

Will it be possible for a culture to be a member of more than one culture group? Or at least possible for cultures to change groups? If not, could this be considered?

Mutable culture groups would be a great feature, in my opinion. What if, for example, the Irish were a member of the British culture group but broke away in a nationalist revolt, as you mentioned? If they maintained independence and perhaps grew to some level of international recognition, maybe they could get their own culture group, symbolizing international recognition of their sovereignty? To take your USA/CSA example, a CSA that wins the Civil War and maybe a war or two past that might split off into its own culture group, preventing the USA from one-shot annexing it in the future.

Either way, I absolutely love the culture group/union tag idea imported from EUIII in (IMHO) a much more effective way for the 19th century!

No culture groups are statically defined things in a text file, and cultures can belong to one group only. So what we start with is what we will finish with.

 

[Jolt]

No idea, I am home in Scotland at the moment, luggage having finally arrived.

This is no AAR, this is a space station, no wait, THIS IS SPARTA, no I am doing it wrong, this is a bonus developer diary.

I meant Developer Diary. >_> Don't mind me, I was way to sleepy by then.

Well the culture groups are still up the air at the moment. All I can really talk about is the kind of ideas were are bouncing about.

As I said it before, I think it's pretty awesome that you still haven't made up a concept of the game and sticking to it, which leaves plenty space for player suggestions to be incorporated into the game. Indeed, I wouldn't mind one bit if the game launch date was delayed. It would only mean you guys were perfecting the game.

And since I forgot: Merry Christmas, King; and Merry Christmas Paradox.

it would be nice. it should be unlikely but not imposible, i believe. iberian union has been there ever since middle XIX and even today but more at intelectual-popular levels rather than among the politic classes.

What alvaro says is basically correct. The Iberian ideal was always cherished in through the intelectual circles. It never got much support in the political classes, nor at popular level. There simply wasn't a popular desire to unify the Portugal and Spain (Sort of like when the Liberal Revolution happened in Germany, the German people call for a union between all German States).

The ideal was mostly concentrated in the masonry up until today.

One exception was of Manuel Azaña, who was a Federalist proponent and supporter of integration of both countries. He supported (Gave financial and military aid, although triffling) to a small coup which happened in the 1931, and that was quickly crushed.

Beyond that, the class that absolutely mattered in regards to a "Liberal Pan-Unification"; the people, both sides weren't interested in joining with the other side. Several centuries of warfare, a fiercely independent Portuguese people and elite prevented such a move from happening.

There is a good book on that. "Espanhois e Portugal" (In Portuguese) by José Freire Antunes, which does an intensive analysis of all dealings between Spain and Portugal, with special incidence of the Iberism concept which surged with the Restauration of 1640 and later with the Liberal Revolution which as explained, didn't gather much support on both societies.

 

[King]

What alvaro says is basically correct. The Iberian ideal was always cherished in through the intelectual circles. It never got much support in the political classes, nor at popular level. There simply wasn't a popular desire to unify the Portugal and Spain (Sort of like when the Liberal Revolution happened in Germany, the German people call for a union between all German States).

The ideal was mostly concentrated in the masonry up until today.

One exception was of Manuel Azaña, who was a Federalist proponent and supporter of integration of both countries. He supported (Gave financial and military aid, although triffling) to a small coup which happened in the 1931, and that was quickly crushed.

Beyond that, the class that absolutely mattered in regards to a "Liberal Pan-Unification"; the people, both sides weren't interested in joining with the other side. Several centuries of warfare, a fiercely independent Portuguese people and elite prevented such a move from happening.

There is a good book on that. "Espanhois e Portugal" (In Portuguese) by José Freire Antunes, which does an intensive analysis of all dealings between Spain and Portugal, with special incidence of the Iberism concept which surged with the Restauration of 1640 and later with the Liberal Revolution which as explained, didn't gather much support on both societies.

yeh but remember Pan-Nationalism is a liberal revolter type. Conservatives don't like it, they want the good old days and socialists are past all that nationalism crap anyway. So you arguement fits our model.

 

[JoeGiavani]

Not sure I like the idea of Irish being in the same culture group as the UK. Since we can't have separate policies for different ethnicities in countries, it'll mean in game terms the Irish are treated the same as the Scottish, even though during this period the Irish experienced a famine during which a quarter of the population (two million people) either died or emmigrated, all the while the English were making them export massive amounts of grain (Low lie the fields of athenry). The prevailing attitude in England at the time (and up to about the 1950s/60s) was that the Irish were "white niggers"-inferior, basically. The thought of the same thing happening in Scotland would have been unthinkable.
I realise historical issues like this are difficult to handle and I'm sure there's no harm intended but I do find it a bit sickening.

 

[OHgamer]

Not sure I like the idea of Irish being in the same culture group as the UK. Since we can't have separate policies for different ethnicities in countries, it'll mean in game terms the Irish are treated the same as the Scottish, even though during this period the Irish experienced a famine during which a quarter of the population (two million people) either died or emmigrated, all the while the English were making them export massive amounts of grain (Low lie the fields of athenry). The prevailing attitude in England at the time (and up to about the 1950s/60s) was that the Irish were "white niggers"-inferior, basically. The thought of the same thing happening in Scotland would have been unthinkable.
I realise historical issues like this are difficult to handle and I'm sure there's no harm intended but I do find it a bit sickening.

Well if Paradox does decide to keep Irish in the British cultural group, then it would be a very simple thing for individual users to mod in a new Irish cultural group with just Irish for themselves if so desired, since everything is text-file based.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Love the extra dev diary (and the features described). It very much seems to catch a very important part of the spirit of this era!

I'd also say a case could be made for French sub-cultures and revolters (though with low militancy). Some regions are still pretty anti-french (an anecdote to prove this () would be a visiting french professor comming to the uni here refusing to speak french to anyone who tried to do so as he was from picardie and would only converse on his mother tongue)...

 

[alvaro]

So yes, I'm of course not an impartial part, but I think to be historically accurate, Catalonia should be a possible revolter since the beginning of the game timeframe as it was with Vicky I, but with a low militancy as a result of what King said.

maybe what you say it's the correct thing. something that make it an issue late in the game depending on how the development of the country turned out.

still i am curious about how carlists wars are going to be represented. militant carlists pops (so that a carlist party whould be active from the begining) might do it pretty well.

btw, is party system going to vary from V1?

 

[JoeGiavani]

Well if Paradox does decide to keep Irish in the British cultural group, then it would be a very simple thing for individual users to mod in a new Irish cultural group with just Irish for themselves if so desired, since everything is text-file based.

Well ideally it'd be in the same group as Welsh, Scottish, Cornish (if it's in the game, not a great loss if it isn't) and Britons/Brittans (what do you call inhabitants of Brittany?). The UK would have Welsh and Scottish cultures accepted.
I'd understand if the culture groups aren't that detailed or complex and I appreciate that it'd be tricky to do it the world over, and probably easy to mod in, but I think it'd be the ideal solution.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Thanks for posting this, King. Merry Christmas.

 

[King]

Well ideally it'd be in the same group as Welsh, Scottish, Cornish (if it's in the game, not a great loss if it isn't) and Britons/Brittans (what do you call inhabitants of Brittany?). The UK would have Welsh and Scottish cultures accepted.
I'd understand if the culture groups aren't that detailed or complex and I appreciate that it'd be tricky to do it the world over, and probably easy to mod in, but I think it'd be the ideal solution.

Ok let's knock the culture inflation rigth on the head here. We are not going to have a seperate culture for all 7 Cornish speakers. The Welsh and the Scots are classed as British. This is 1850s not the 1950s, British is still best. The Irish are very much apart, but up until 1916 their demand was for limited devloution not independence, hence why they go in the British culture group.

 

[unmerged(67185)]

I cannot believe that I have missed this, thank you and God jul Paradox!

 

[JoeGiavani]

Ok let's knock the culture inflation rigth on the head here. We are not going to have a seperate culture for all 7 Cornish speakers. The Welsh and the Scots are classed as British. This is 1850s not the 1950s, British is still best. The Irish are very much apart, but up until 1916 their demand was for limited devloution not independence, hence why they go in the British culture group.

That makes sense with culture.
Regarding the Irish calls for home rule, would that be represented by the political parties of that area having "home rule" as a policy? Is there a generic template for regional parties who will use the electoral process/parliamentary houses to try and achieve home rule?
So for example Spain could have Catalan parties that campaigned for regional devolution, and depending on how you treated them, calls for violent revolution/outright independence grew stronger?