Speed does not factor into whether a unit can be hit nor how much damage it takes.
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Hi,
Removing some of the outdated units is definitely an option. For 0.70 I implemented an event for GER that removed the Type IIa uboat unit in exchange for some boni to reflect use in training. There are also some AI events that the USA has that convert obsolete DD to Escorts. We could certainly expand on that. That said, ITA itself doesn't really suffer from having obsolete large ships. Those are generally pretty good. They do have old DD. but they are somewhat short DD to begin with. And the old SS don't really impact fleet actions the same way. If there are any specific units please indicate and we can consider scripting.
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Removing some of the outdated units is definitely an option. For 0.70 I implemented an event for GER that removed the Type IIa uboat unit in exchange for some boni to reflect use in training. There are also some AI events that the USA has that convert obsolete DD to Escorts. We could certainly expand on that. That said, ITA itself doesn't really suffer from having obsolete large ships. Those are generally pretty good. They do have old DD. but they are somewhat short DD to begin with. And the old SS don't really impact fleet actions the same way. If there are any specific units please indicate and we can consider scripting.
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germany has the two old deadnoughts, ITA has some older CL with non-upgradable brigade and I remember to have seen a similar CA. JAP has some old CL/CA, FRA some old BB (Courbet, Jean Bart/ocean, Paris) and possible others, etc.
Hi,
GER: Pretty short on fleet units as is. These are good for shore bombardment and possibly convoy escort duty.
ITA: Has one non-upgradeable CA and one older CL (Quarto gets scrapped historically) that can upgrade. CA San Giorgio was used for training ad as a floating battery at Tobruk. So might be viable as event driven Coastal Fort/AA for Tobruk. CL Tarranto was in service through the war but did very little.
JAP: Has 3 old CA. Tokiwa used as a minelayer and escort. Could be converted to an Escort or 2 which would be more helpful to JAP. Iwate used for training pretty much. Izumo used for fire support and training. Not sure what would be most applicable for these.
FRA: While the BB are older they are still upgradeable and represent a significant portion of the French fleet.
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GER: Pretty short on fleet units as is. These are good for shore bombardment and possibly convoy escort duty.
ITA: Has one non-upgradeable CA and one older CL (Quarto gets scrapped historically) that can upgrade. CA San Giorgio was used for training ad as a floating battery at Tobruk. So might be viable as event driven Coastal Fort/AA for Tobruk. CL Tarranto was in service through the war but did very little.
JAP: Has 3 old CA. Tokiwa used as a minelayer and escort. Could be converted to an Escort or 2 which would be more helpful to JAP. Iwate used for training pretty much. Izumo used for fire support and training. Not sure what would be most applicable for these.
FRA: While the BB are older they are still upgradeable and represent a significant portion of the French fleet.
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Both german (pre-dreadnought) line ships were delegated to non-combat tasks after Weserübung.
Both were training ships and could possibly confer boni as such.
SMS Schleswig-Holstein should also start the scenario off-map, being refitted (secondary armament, engine, fire control, radio) until september (re-entered service on 21.09.1936).
- Being pedantic, the ship was ready between march and may, when work on the engine had not yet started, but the other tasks already been completed.
Both were training ships and could possibly confer boni as such.
SMS Schleswig-Holstein should also start the scenario off-map, being refitted (secondary armament, engine, fire control, radio) until september (re-entered service on 21.09.1936).
- Being pedantic, the ship was ready between march and may, when work on the engine had not yet started, but the other tasks already been completed.
Hi,
The problem here is they were used for fire support at multiple times during the war. I'm hesitant to remove them when GER is rather short on ships.
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The problem here is they were used for fire support at multiple times during the war. I'm hesitant to remove them when GER is rather short on ships.
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It should be the player's choice, obviously.
- Besides, every heavy cruiser that GER may possess is a superior replacement for one of these ships.
- Besides, every heavy cruiser that GER may possess is a superior replacement for one of these ships.
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Hi,
There are a couple issues here. One is that GER is just short on ships and doesn't have many CA to begin with. So these ships are still useful for providing fire support/escort while the better ships remain on patrol/interdiction. The other issue is that it's every nation had training ships. So givingextra credit for these as training ships is a bit much. Of course a player always has the option of simply disbanding for MP. But the original focus is what can we do to help the AI with ship management. So any options here need to work for the AI and be somewhat historical.
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There are a couple issues here. One is that GER is just short on ships and doesn't have many CA to begin with. So these ships are still useful for providing fire support/escort while the better ships remain on patrol/interdiction. The other issue is that it's every nation had training ships. So givingextra credit for these as training ships is a bit much. Of course a player always has the option of simply disbanding for MP. But the original focus is what can we do to help the AI with ship management. So any options here need to work for the AI and be somewhat historical.
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Well, the AI will not delegate them to shore bombardment but keep them in the main fleet (which itself may conduct shore bombardment), where they do more harm than good.
- Then again, GER's main fleet is so unimportant (and usually locked in harbour by land-based aircraft anyway), that this is probably not much of a problem in the first place.
If we do want to help the AI, we should probably uncap the strength of Brummer & Bremse for it as well.
- Then again, GER's main fleet is so unimportant (and usually locked in harbour by land-based aircraft anyway), that this is probably not much of a problem in the first place.
If we do want to help the AI, we should probably uncap the strength of Brummer & Bremse for it as well.
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Hi,
If the consensus is that the AI is better off without them that is easy enough to do. Though there is a number of locations where the BB count is used. So it isn't quite as simple as it seems. I just don't see any positive trade to be made with them.
B&B might just be better assigned to the Escort pool if the cap issue is really a problem. That is what they were historically used for.
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If the consensus is that the AI is better off without them that is easy enough to do. Though there is a number of locations where the BB count is used. So it isn't quite as simple as it seems. I just don't see any positive trade to be made with them.
B&B might just be better assigned to the Escort pool if the cap issue is really a problem. That is what they were historically used for.
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Some AI reaction build events may count existing BBs. Problem here: by 1930s standard these two old ships of the line hardly counted as BBs. I doubt the RN would request more Battleships if GER had a fleet of 10 of these old ships. In a future version these are better modeled as BC even if we have to create a special model for them.
Most human players will disband the outdated ships anyway so my suggestion would be to create AI-only events firing if at war with a major nation. Scrapping for supplies/metal/rares.
Most human players will disband the outdated ships anyway so my suggestion would be to create AI-only events firing if at war with a major nation. Scrapping for supplies/metal/rares.
Hi,
The actual Reaction Events count them as BB. But since they are accounted for in the trigger it is WAD. Plus the build AI is looking at them for total percentages. So any outright elimination would need to be done with so rather significant validation. If we are going to scrap them for the AI I'd scrap them immediately. That way they don't waste any Supplies on them.
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The actual Reaction Events count them as BB. But since they are accounted for in the trigger it is WAD. Plus the build AI is looking at them for total percentages. So any outright elimination would need to be done with so rather significant validation. If we are going to scrap them for the AI I'd scrap them immediately. That way they don't waste any Supplies on them.
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