A nations ideas are too quick to obtain

[Atomcreator]

Its 1567 in my VH GB game and I've already taken all the British ideas.
My point is that they are too quick and easy to obtain and there's now nothing to work for, other than policies.
I've already completed 4 idea sets. The silly thing is that some of the historical context tooltips , for example, The Reform of Commission Buying, mention the Grand Old Duke of York in 1795. Its not even the last one.
I would prefer a system far slower, most in tune to historical events. Perhaps gain one after completing an idea set. Then, as there are 10 idea sets, have ten national ideas, powered down slightly.
This has always bugged me.
Thoughts please.

 

[Yolordmcswag]

National ideas are meant to show what each nation is particularily good at compared to others. If the ideas take too long to unlock, all nations have the same ideas for much of the game, making them identical and boring.

As for things to work for later in the game, I think missions and government reforms work better for this. Missions are specific tasks your country wishes to do, and government reforms represent your state becoming more powerful and efficient as new technologies and systems are created. These are things to work towards IMO, while ideas more reflect the strengths of the country to begin with, as there are already countless different nations in 1444.

 

[Atomcreator]

National ideas are meant to show what each nation is particularily good at compared to others. If the ideas take too long to unlock, all nations have the same ideas for much of the game, making them identical and boring.

As for things to work for later in the game, I think missions and government reforms work better for this. Missions are specific tasks your country wishes to do, and government reforms represent your state becoming more powerful and efficient as new technologies and systems are created. These are things to work towards IMO, while ideas more reflect the strengths of the country to begin with, as there are already countless different nations in 1444.

I see your point, but I disagree, pointing out the example of the Grand of Duke of York ( 1795 ) I gave earlier. I simply would prefer them to be spread out more. I see nothing that would make a nation boring to be honest. In fact it would be the reverse, giving more things to aim at. There are plenty of other unique events and identifiers to separate nations. At the moment, you feel like its finished and little else to aim for far too early. In my case 1567.

 

[bud]

Its 1567 in my VH GB game and I've already taken all the British ideas.
My point is that they are too quick and easy to obtain and there's now nothing to work for, other than policies.
I've already completed 4 idea sets. The silly thing is that some of the historical context tooltips , for example, The Reform of Commission Buying, mention the Grand Old Duke of York in 1795. Its not even the last one.
I would prefer a system far slower, most in tune to historical events. Perhaps gain one after completing an idea set. Then, as there are 10 idea sets, have ten national ideas, powered down slightly.
This has always bugged me.
Thoughts please.

Simple solution to your problem is you exercising self control and choosing to slowly complete your idea sets.
Speaking of idea sets, some are easily as powerful or as national idea sets. You seem to have no problem completing those in a swift manner, so I would have to ask why one is ok and they other isn't.
Also, completing idea sets as quickly as you claim (i.e. 4 by 1567) would likely mean you had consistently Really (like 5/5/5 or 6/6/6) good rulers. What is odd about this, is according to the EU4 wiki, they estimate gaining tech 14 (which unlocks your 4th idea slot) around 1583, 16 years after you claim to have completed four idea sets.

But, as you are asking about thoughts on this, I would say that this seems to be one of those "you" problems. I don't see any issue with the mechanics of gaining national ideas and your suggested fix would mean that very few people would complete them if it required the completion of seven (7) idea sets (with the current 7 idea national idea sets).

The solution I would suggest is that you either 1) look for a mod that handles national ideas in a way you desire or 2) make such a mod your self. I can't believe it would be too hard to adjust the amount of national idea gain when picking an idea from an idea group.

 

[MK1980]

...
Also, completing idea sets as quickly as you claim (i.e. 4 by 1567) would likely mean you had consistently Really (like 5/5/5 or 6/6/6) good rulers. What is odd about this, is according to the EU4 wiki, they estimate gaining tech 14 (which unlocks your 4th idea slot) around 1583, 16 years after you claim to have completed four idea sets.
...

your math is off. there are 7 national ideas and you need 3 ideas unlocked for each of them, so with 3 finshed idea groups (7 ideas each) you're already done. 3rd idea group unlocks at tech level 10 (year 1531 unless you get it ahead of time).

 

[bud]

your math is off. there are 7 national ideas and you need 3 ideas unlocked for each of them, so with 3 finshed idea groups (7 ideas each) you're already done. 3rd idea group unlocks at tech level 10 (year 1531 unless you get it ahead of time).

The OP stated that they have completed four (4) idea sets by 1567. I am asking how they completed said idea sets by 1567...

 

[MK1980]

The OP stated that they have completed four (4) idea sets by 1567. I am asking how they completed said idea sets by 1567...

true. but he also stated that there are 10 idea sets, so i guess counting idea sets is not his specialty

 

[Livigy]

I completely understand how the system feels incomplete as NI's are completed in the early to mid game (if you rarely play until the real end game), so the system comes off as a pacing issue. But perhaps consider the perspective that policies are pseudo NI's that you as a player decide and choose as being the extension of that system into the later game. Particularly as in the later game you have a greater range of choices as more policy combinations are unlocked, or you may have the capacity to run more policies in total. It is still the same system in the sense that you are rewarded and gain power from unlocking ideas, but with policies the player has more agency in the future direction of their nation rather than being bound to historic legacies.

But having historic legacies and identities is an amazing aspect of the game and is refreshing compared to the many games in the genre that have blank slate starts with minor identity traits or units. And as NI's are representative of a countries history and identity they need to be established early which is where the gradual NI system comes into play.

Imagine having all NI's unlocked at game start which would also be bad pacing as it deprives the game of the general chaos of the early game and would discourage player's from playing countries with bad NI's even more as they may not have a chance to defy the system and grow in power despite the handicap of poor NI's.

So I do find the current system does meet the pacing issues of early and late game but the presentation of the current system does mean that NI's and polices aren't viewed as the same system and are perceived as independent individual systems, instead of one extending or building ontop of the other. They may use slightly different mechanics to achieve their outcomes but they are both dependent and restrained by the pacing of the idea system as a whole.

 

[st360]

National ideas are meant to show what each nation is particularily good at compared to others. If the ideas take too long to unlock, all nations have the same ideas for much of the game, making them identical and boring.

I wish more people would realize this and stop crying for every fcking tag in the game to have 2 military buffs and a coring cost reduction in their ideas, "otherwise its trash". I remember when most nations had no + discipline in their ideas, and only 1 or 2 ultra special tags had two military ideas.

 

[RobbieAB]

true. but he also stated that there are 10 idea sets, so i guess counting idea sets is not his specialty

I wonder if OP is playing with a mod. IIRC there is a mod that allows 10 idea groups instead of 8, in which case you would indeed complete your national ideas earlier.

 

[PöpØ]

GB has a lot of flavor (events, missions, religion ...) and other ingame advantages (best trade node, safe position ...). So NI are easier to unlock, but also less necessary to win.
Many nations can only rely on NI, and so unlocking a good economic or military bonus ASAP can be vital.

One thing we can imagine, is that when you form a nation and change your national idea set, then you have to unlock those new ideas (maybe not the full set, but half of it seems fair to me). Just like when you change government form, you have to unlock new reforms.

 

[grotaclas]

Also, completing idea sets as quickly as you claim (i.e. 4 by 1567) would likely mean you had consistently Really (like 5/5/5 or 6/6/6) good rulers. What is odd about this, is according to the EU4 wiki, they estimate gaining tech 14 (which unlocks your 4th idea slot) around 1583, 16 years after you claim to have completed four idea sets.

The dates on the wiki are when a tech loses its ahead of time bonus and the next tech loses its extra cost for being ahead of time. So you can get tech 14 in 1570 without paying extra. But I agree that OPs claim of having completed 4 idea groups in 1567 is not really possible without playing a horde.

 

[Xinkc]

I'm not understanding how there's nothing to work for as England/GB after finishing the NI's. There's a massive mission tree there to complete, swaths of lands to colonize, and whatever one wills to work for. Heck, completing NI's isn't even really something one "works" for in the game. It's more of a side use for mana that you occasionally click every handful of years while you're playing the game.