This seems like the kind of thing the players of Victoria would enjoy doing. But how would you set it up?
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I think It would be Britan is an aloof, isolationist country hugging close to her colonies, France dominating West Europe with Spain, Netherlands, W. Germany, and Italy as puppets, Russia Dominating E. Europe, with Prussia, Austria, Balkans and Bavaria, America as an ally of Napoleon and fighting with Britan in Canada, South America with various states allied to France and Britan (Mexico being a French puppet), Africa being carved up between France and Britan, India going to Britan, China being dominated by France, Britan, Russia, and Japan, and Japan ruling supreme the Pacific. I once wrote an alternate history on this, I'll see if I can find it...
Well, first you'd need a time mod to 1820 or 1815. I wish the start date was earlier. I'm sure some mod will fix this.
ALso, it depends on what victory. Success in Russia?
Nappy accepts the post-Liepzig peace?
Nappy wins Waterloo and the Allies allow him white peace? (wouldn't have happened, I think Austria, England, and Prussia would have done whatever it took to get rid of him)
Also, succession would be an issue, as Nappy II died pretty young.
ALso, it depends on what victory. Success in Russia?
Nappy accepts the post-Liepzig peace?
Nappy wins Waterloo and the Allies allow him white peace? (wouldn't have happened, I think Austria, England, and Prussia would have done whatever it took to get rid of him)
Also, succession would be an issue, as Nappy II died pretty young.
But his nephew rose to the throne in the timeframe, Napoleon III. His father could be regent for the time being?
But indeed - what would be victory? I think a "total victory" scenario, with the Russian campaign successful, could be boring - all of Europe (well except Spain (revolts) and maybe Austria?) would be allied/united with France, UK would be isolated - who should really stand up to them? In that respect it may be fortunate that we'd have 15 years to bridge between EU2 and Victoria, allowing for artistic freedom, e.g. a war beteen pretenders to the French Imperial throne when Napoleon dies.
Without Napoleon's defeat, it's probable that Marie Louise would have secured him another heir, even assuming that Napoleon II still died at the same age.
Even assuming that Napoleon II died without any brothers, by the time of Napoleon II's historical death in 1832, Louis Napoleon was 24 (he was actually older than his cousin). Also, in this timeline, Louis Napoleon''s older brother, Napoleon Louis, wouldn't have died as a result of his participation in the 1830 Italian revolts. Although one of Napoleon's four brothers (all still alive at this time) might have been seen as a better candidate because of the relative youth of L-N and N-L.
According to the list of Princes Canino(Succesors of Napy I) after Napy II came Napy's brother Lucien as Lucien I.
This is the List:
Napoleon I........................................1804-1814, 1815 d. 1821
Napoleon II.......................................1821-1832 (son of the Nap. I)
Lucien I..........................................1832-1840 (brother of Nap. I)
Charles...........................................1840-1857 (son of Lucien)
Joseph............................................1857-1865 (son of Charles)
Lucien II.........................................1865-1895 (son of Charles)
Napoleon III......................................1895-1899 (son of Charles)
Marie I...........................................1899-1947 (daughter of Nap. III)
This is the List:
Napoleon I........................................1804-1814, 1815 d. 1821
Napoleon II.......................................1821-1832 (son of the Nap. I)
Lucien I..........................................1832-1840 (brother of Nap. I)
Charles...........................................1840-1857 (son of Lucien)
Joseph............................................1857-1865 (son of Charles)
Lucien II.........................................1865-1895 (son of Charles)
Napoleon III......................................1895-1899 (son of Charles)
Marie I...........................................1899-1947 (daughter of Nap. III)
Originally posted by Sytass
All the more reason for a War of French succession between various contenders.
Not at all, all Napy's brothers would have a throne, maybe in exception on Louis(father of Louis Napoléon[III]) overthrown fron Netherlands and maybe Joseph, who could have been overthrown of Spanish throne surely, but as his heirs would be the same as the ones of Lucien won't join versus him, at most could be Princes Canino(Lucien) vs Princes Napoléon(Louis/Napy III)
Mmm. How about something like this.
Napoleon and Alexander partition Prussia in 1808 at Tilsit. (We've all heard the story of the sobbing Queen).
Spain is gradually ground down under the French heel.
Sticking point is russia, but the game would start off with France's natural boundaries at the Rhine, a puppet confederation of the rhine, the kingdoms of Italy, and Austria as a power between the two colossi.
Or you could have the various Bonapartist successor regimes after a total victory which culminated in the capture of Alexander in 1812.
Hmm. A total victory scenario had Napoleon die in 1832. However, his reign was not loved. The Confederation of the Rhine rose up against the puppet princes, and as the French were sent back to France to deal with the civil war, they managed to establish the GermandBund (German Republic). It has revanchist aims on the Rhineland.
The Duchy of Warsaw and the Ukraine are independent. Eugene's successor rules Italy, furious at France's continued occupation of Genoa. The British are trying to break the colossi that is napoleonic France.
How's something like that sound?
Napoleon and Alexander partition Prussia in 1808 at Tilsit. (We've all heard the story of the sobbing Queen).
Spain is gradually ground down under the French heel.
Sticking point is russia, but the game would start off with France's natural boundaries at the Rhine, a puppet confederation of the rhine, the kingdoms of Italy, and Austria as a power between the two colossi.
Or you could have the various Bonapartist successor regimes after a total victory which culminated in the capture of Alexander in 1812.
Hmm. A total victory scenario had Napoleon die in 1832. However, his reign was not loved. The Confederation of the Rhine rose up against the puppet princes, and as the French were sent back to France to deal with the civil war, they managed to establish the GermandBund (German Republic). It has revanchist aims on the Rhineland.
The Duchy of Warsaw and the Ukraine are independent. Eugene's successor rules Italy, furious at France's continued occupation of Genoa. The British are trying to break the colossi that is napoleonic France.
How's something like that sound?
I wrote up a small sccenario assuming Napoleon had accepted the peace of Leipzig for the thread "What is your dream mod for Vicky".
The basic idea is that France extends to her natural boundaries with the Bonaparte dynasty intact. For 5 years, France industrializes with amazing speed so that in 1820 she is almost as modern as Britian.
When the revolutions of 1820 break out in Spain, Italy and Great Britian (there was a workers' revolt [I believe] in Britian in 1819, I am making that into a major revolution to keep them from responding to France's invasions), Napoleon took advantage of the situation to send armies into Spain and Italy to restore French rule. The Spainish and Italians were wary, but the approved of Republican French rule over the monarchical rule of their national kings.
The other European powers were outraged, but the English were busy with instablility in their own land, the Austrians were facing their own Italian revolts, the Ottomans were occupied with Greece and Prussia and Russia were no match for France alone.
The result is that France subjugated Spain and Portugal into a united iberian kingdom, annexed north-western Italy and created a united Italy and Naples from that which they did not annex (much like the 1810 situation).
In 1835, Napoleon is in falling health, however, his dynasty is more than secure with the King of Rome. A Franco-Spanish-American alliance, supported by Italy, Saxony, Denmark, and Greece (which France sent aid to during the Revolutionary War) is poised to defend against the new coalition.
The basic idea is that France extends to her natural boundaries with the Bonaparte dynasty intact. For 5 years, France industrializes with amazing speed so that in 1820 she is almost as modern as Britian.
When the revolutions of 1820 break out in Spain, Italy and Great Britian (there was a workers' revolt [I believe] in Britian in 1819, I am making that into a major revolution to keep them from responding to France's invasions), Napoleon took advantage of the situation to send armies into Spain and Italy to restore French rule. The Spainish and Italians were wary, but the approved of Republican French rule over the monarchical rule of their national kings.
The other European powers were outraged, but the English were busy with instablility in their own land, the Austrians were facing their own Italian revolts, the Ottomans were occupied with Greece and Prussia and Russia were no match for France alone.
The result is that France subjugated Spain and Portugal into a united iberian kingdom, annexed north-western Italy and created a united Italy and Naples from that which they did not annex (much like the 1810 situation).
In 1835, Napoleon is in falling health, however, his dynasty is more than secure with the King of Rome. A Franco-Spanish-American alliance, supported by Italy, Saxony, Denmark, and Greece (which France sent aid to during the Revolutionary War) is poised to defend against the new coalition.
About the type of what if i would like about Napoleon I is a peace in 1805/1806.
England agreed about Napoleon keeping France to the Rhine. Louis in Neederland, Italy (north) like a independant kingdom with Napoleon I as king and the agreed Rhinbund. Some Napoleon counsellor (Talleyrand) said him to accept but Napoleon dream was total victory. After Austerliz, some french minister ased him to be fair with austria and ask an alliance with Austria an no territorial or dystanical claim about the SRE.
With this type of peace you should made a good What if. Rhinebund should have became a earlier Zollverein with a german nationalism growth and Italya, wich throne have to be switch from France after Napoleon I, should have been unified earlier too. The russian politic should have been even more agressive (they would have to face a strongest Austria in the balkans)
England keep an huge Empire and a "high tech" industry.
France with the adding of Belgium coal and industry would have became more industial but after a few decade a lot of problems to face (Flandern and German nationalism) strong political demand in core France. Internal politic of Napoleon was dispite by a lot of people (even some of his Maréchaux)...
That's a scenario i would like to make, if the scenario editor is useable.
England agreed about Napoleon keeping France to the Rhine. Louis in Neederland, Italy (north) like a independant kingdom with Napoleon I as king and the agreed Rhinbund. Some Napoleon counsellor (Talleyrand) said him to accept but Napoleon dream was total victory. After Austerliz, some french minister ased him to be fair with austria and ask an alliance with Austria an no territorial or dystanical claim about the SRE.
With this type of peace you should made a good What if. Rhinebund should have became a earlier Zollverein with a german nationalism growth and Italya, wich throne have to be switch from France after Napoleon I, should have been unified earlier too. The russian politic should have been even more agressive (they would have to face a strongest Austria in the balkans)
England keep an huge Empire and a "high tech" industry.
France with the adding of Belgium coal and industry would have became more industial but after a few decade a lot of problems to face (Flandern and German nationalism) strong political demand in core France. Internal politic of Napoleon was dispite by a lot of people (even some of his Maréchaux)...
That's a scenario i would like to make, if the scenario editor is useable.
That sounds like a good scenario too, Irsich. Perhaps the turning point between reality and your scenario would be a French success against Britian in Egypt and against the Ottomans in Syria so that France controls Egypt and the holy land?
SRE? HRE you mean? I'm aware of the pace you're talking about; the bourbons in sicily would've been sent to the baleares; the confederation would have been recognized. A sticking point would have been hannover, and napoleon's personality in general.
The peace was trade between the end of 1805 and fall 1806 i think. (from memory)
It seems that the real matter was Napoleon I megalomania. The english offers were really fair and most of France would have be happy of this conditions. The english even made some few accept to Napoleon huge dynastical claim but he was too self confident in his future Russian victory (1807). He already though about a (utopic!) Franco-Russian alliance. Only in 1809 when "Achiduke Charles" show him than Austria was always a power did he realise his errors.
About "SRE"= Ooops
I made a melt of SERG (french short word) and "HRE". I apologize.
The baleares trade was added during the negociation and Hannover was a lever for Napoleon to refuse the peace. From the books i read it really seems Napoleon never really though to made a peace with England. Should have been Austerliz a shorter victory ( it was already less than in his notes "bulletins de la grande armée") Napoleon would have been softer.
Yes. Maybe the best thing would be to alter napoleon's personality, or have him die in 1809.
Do you mean the best thing for France?
I think it would have been to never ask about territorial gain after each victory the french get between 1792 and 1809.
Just wait the coalition to came and destroyed them one by one. Really without so stupid claim, the french should have been quiet in 1800. European monarchy were able to stand a frenc republic if it wasn"t a warmonger...
Originally posted by Irsich
Do you mean the best thing for France?
I think it would have been to never ask about territorial gain after each victory the french get between 1792 and 1809.
Just wait the coalition to came and destroyed them one by one. Really without so stupid claim, the french should have been quiet in 1800. European monarchy were able to stand a frenc republic if it wasn"t a warmonger...
Yeah, but the revolutionary state seemed to be living on plunder; look at how Nappy made out in Italy.
But tribute was not necesary to the state, only to making Bonaparte's rise.
It seems unlikely that had the Republic stoped at the Rhine, or even, perhaps, at Lucca, that France would have been unable to live peacfully as a nation. However, if that had been so, without the continued victories Napoleon would never have been able to crown himself Emporeur. At the most he would have been able to dispose of the Directoire and become Consul.
It seems unlikely that had the Republic stoped at the Rhine, or even, perhaps, at Lucca, that France would have been unable to live peacfully as a nation. However, if that had been so, without the continued victories Napoleon would never have been able to crown himself Emporeur. At the most he would have been able to dispose of the Directoire and become Consul.
I don't understand why England has to be weak in all these scenarios. True, France may be able to close off a good bit of continental trade from the English, but looking back it was the French who were hurt more and not the English merchants. If there were a fantasy scenario with France dominant on the continent, England should be quite strong, and much more technologically advanced.
France should be on the verge of backwardness, as its been spending all its time and money trying to keep a multi-national empire together, and probably should have little to no colonial possessions, as continued agression (or refusal of trade) with England would provoke the Redcoats to take what colonial holdings they pleased.
All in all, it could be a very interesting scenario, pitting France and England against eachother (one for free trade the other for domination), with the peripheral but growing powers of Russia, USA, and Japan, who could be swayed to either side depending on the offers (would the U.S. really stay in the French camp that long if it saw its trade threatened by the mighty British Navy?).
A total victory scenario sounds the least likely, and fun, unless the player is hit with some major revolts, which only with a little luck, could he/she get through, considering the span of the empire.
France should be on the verge of backwardness, as its been spending all its time and money trying to keep a multi-national empire together, and probably should have little to no colonial possessions, as continued agression (or refusal of trade) with England would provoke the Redcoats to take what colonial holdings they pleased.
All in all, it could be a very interesting scenario, pitting France and England against eachother (one for free trade the other for domination), with the peripheral but growing powers of Russia, USA, and Japan, who could be swayed to either side depending on the offers (would the U.S. really stay in the French camp that long if it saw its trade threatened by the mighty British Navy?).
A total victory scenario sounds the least likely, and fun, unless the player is hit with some major revolts, which only with a little luck, could he/she get through, considering the span of the empire.