A more suitable coat of arms for England

[Mindel]

The current England CoA (three golden lions) is the best-known one today. But it is tied to the fact that the Normans conquered England. Later, the Normans held Normandy, Aquitaine, and England together, hence the three lions.

These circumstances are unlikely to repeat themselves in a campaign starting in 769. For instance, the three lions would not make any sense for an Anglo-Saxon ruler who unites England.

Wouldn't it make sense to have a different CoA for England, at least in the early Middle Ages for Anglo-Saxon rulers? There could be an event that changes it to the three lions in the case that it gets conquered by a foreign ruler (such events already exist for Lombardy and other kingdoms).

There is also a pretty decent candidate:

You can read more about it here.

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeah I agree with this as well. It's kinda goofy to have the Norman coat of arms in games where no Normans ever set foot on England or where their invasion fails for some reason or the other.

 

[raistlin_wizard]

I shouldn't have said anything...

 

[Caspian Mortis]

Coat of arms of some empires and kingdoms should be dynamic.

Like a Christian and Hellenic Roman Empire shouldn't share the shame coat of arms.

 

[UVpickles]

Culturally dynamic coats of arms would actually be awesome

 

[raistlin_wizard]

Culturally dynamic coats of arms would actually be awesome

That would be cool, but I can't think of a good example of it. Italy/Normandy is pretty clear, but what would a pre-norman England look like. Or a non-Capet France?

 

[Spartanlemur]

That would be cool, but I can't think of a good example of it. Italy/Normandy is pretty clear, but what would a pre-norman England look like. Or a non-Capet France?

The white dragon flag above is a pre-Norman English flag (or, the closest thing resembling something of that sort that we have).

As for other places, it might actually work best if cultures have their own flag which can end up being replaced by a dynastic flag as we progress into the High Middle Ages or if conquered by a foreign dynasty. Maybe there can be a setting to have dynamic flags based on the dynasty in charge as Muslims, pagans, and nomads do, or to use historical ones (and this update could accompany a general improvement of Christian dynasty CoAs).

Devs can be creative with the flags they create for each culture.

 

[Chlodio]

Yeah I agree with this as well. It's kinda goofy to have the Norman coat of arms in games where no Normans ever set foot on England or where their invasion fails for some reason or the other.

Also, the Duchy of Normandy should be called the Duchy of Rouen in 769 and 867, only to be renamed to the Duchy of Normandy, if anyone from North Germanic group takes it.

 

[Orphalesion]

Also, the Duchy of Normandy should be called the Duchy of Rouen in 769 and 867, only to be renamed to the Duchy of Normandy, if anyone from North Germanic group takes it.

That's a really good idea. There's a couple of other places that could use that treatment as well, Marienburg for example. In most start dates there's a good chance that no German or Christian will ever set foot in the Baltics, yet we have a county called "Marienburg"... That one could be renamed "Warmia" after one of the tribes that originally lived in that area.
And if a Christian takes the county it could be renamed "Marienburg"

 

[Mindel]

Yeah I agree with this as well. It's kinda goofy to have the Norman coat of arms in games where no Normans ever set foot on England or where their invasion fails for some reason or the other.

CK2 doesn't seem to have any real migration mechanics. Until it does, I doubt that we will see AI vikings coming in force to invade and settle in the 769 start. They seem content to just raid in my games.

 

[Woifee]

CK2 doesn't seem to have any real migration mechanics. Until it does, I doubt that we will see AI vikings coming in force to invade and settle in the 769 start. They seem content to just raid in my games.

In this case it will never be named Normandy. That’s fine as well.

But I often settle sorse in Normandy, therefore it would be nice if it would change name.

 

[raistlin_wizard]

In this case it will never be named Normandy. That’s fine as well.

But I often settle sorse in Normandy, therefore it would be nice if it would change name.

There could always be a event for the king of France about Vikings settling in Normandy, and they could allow it or not.

 

[Mindel]

There could always be a event for the king of France about Vikings settling in Normandy, and they could allow it or not.

This would be a good addition. At present, the only way for Normans to settle is to conquer the land directly from France.

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

There could always be a event for the king of France about Vikings settling in Normandy, and they could allow it or not.

We can probably do this with Rus too.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Info

There is a mod called "Anglo Saxon Flag Swapper"
(Apparently intended for a start after 1066 to bring anglo-saxon back to power to additonaly change some county and duchy COAs too.)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=358305783
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/mod-anglo-saxon-flag-swapper.823678/
which switches flags based on who rules.

and the simple "White Dragon flag of England" mod (the recommended variant, no fuss)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=354315719

 

[Imozamurai]

There could always be a event for the king of France about Vikings settling in Normandy, and they could allow it or not.

You can negotiate with raiding adventurers to offer them counties or duchies. If both sides accept, the adventurer gains the title and becomes the liege's vassal. I think this is meant to represent the settling of the Normans, but it seems unlikely to happen that way in most games.

 

[Woifee]

You can negotiate with raiding adventurers to offer them counties or duchies. If both sides accept, the adventurer gains the title and becomes the liege's vassal. I think this is meant to represent the settling of the Normans, but it seems unlikely to happen that way in most games.

I thought of thos as well, so we don’t need a special event for normamdy. But I’m not sure the AI ever does that. Sometimes I see AI kings have norse pagan vassals tough. But maybe he have just land to a pagan courtier. Who knows.

 

[Dusk313]

Dynamic Christian coat of arms should be on the game, thus we could play with both coat of arms of Edward the Confessor and Harald Godwinson instead of William's. Even if they are atributed arms...

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I thought of thos as well, so we don’t need a special event for normamdy. But I’m not sure the AI ever does that. Sometimes I see AI kings have norse pagan vassals tough. But maybe he have just land to a pagan courtier. Who knows.

The Norse vassal is almost always due to the "land the raider" event.

The AI is absolutely opposed to landing heathens whenever possible.

 

[Husein]

In this case it will never be named Normandy. That’s fine as well.

But I often settle sorse in Normandy, therefore it would be nice if it would change name.

Get AI Charlemagne to land Ogier in Normandy