Ive always been someone who wants to see a more dynamic pop and economic system as the current system of pops straight up producing tax income or commerce income seems so bland to me.
In the current system pops feel so dead and they seem to be nothing more than stats on the province.
So, here is my suggestion, this is more of an outline of how a system would work:
POP system
First turn the number of pop types from 5 to 7,(A lot less than Victoria 2) then organize them into 3 strata.
Upper Strata would be composed of Nobles and Citizens, these provide the bulk of the research of your empire however they require the most number of goods and are the hardest to keep satisfied.
Middle Strata would be composed of Soldiers, Laborers, Craftsmen, and Tribesmen. They would normally compose the majority of your empire's population and require moderate amount of goods to keep happy. Soldiers, Laborers, Craftsmen produce a quarter of the research produced by Citizens. Tribesmen do not produce any research.
Lower Strata would be principally composed of slaves and require the least amount of goods to satisfy.
Pop types of the same Strata would generally consume the same type and amount of consumer goods.
Nobles and Citizens would produce research and trade routes, thus commerce (more on this after i see how they work in 1.5) with Nobles producing more of both than the citizen. Additionally nobles would also increase the amount of goods produced by Laborers, Tribesmen, and Slaves. Nobles increase output by 2% for every 1% of the territories' pops as Nobles.
However Nobles would start with lower happiness and require a larger amount of trade goods as citizens. Plus there are fewer of them due to desired pop ratios than citizens.
Soldiers are the only pop type that innately produces manpower. But other pop types may produce manpower depending on other factors like conscription laws for citizens and a tribal government type for tribes men.
Craftsmen produce processed goods like weapons, garum, or wine randomly depending on the availability of raw materials in the region.
Laborers, Tribesmen, and Slaves produce the trade good of the province. It would no longer be X amount of pop type for a surplus but something like slaves produce 2 trade goods while Tribesmen and Laborers produce 2.5 trade goods. As said, Laborers and Tribesmen would produce 25% more than slaves but being Middle Strata pops, they require more goods than slaves to be happy plus they start with lower happiness than slaves. Laborers differ from Tribesmen by how civilization affects their productivity in the case of Laborers and happiness in the case of tribesmen.
Pops have different Life and Luxury needs based on their Strata (although Nobles need 50% more than Citizens) in addition to food. Life needs provide bonus happiness when fulfilled while Luxury needs provide output bonus when fulfilled.
A Citizen needs:
Base happiness 20%
0.4 food
Life needs:
0.2 Cloth
0.2 Earthenware
0.1 Papyrus
0.2 Olives
0.2 Wine
Each need provides +7.5% happiness when fulfilled
Luxury Needs
0.2 Garum
0.2 Dye
0.2 Gems
0.2 Precious Metals
0.2 Marble
0.2 Honey
0.2 Dates
Each need provides +7.5% output when fulfilled.
All of these require 50% for Nobles.
Thus Pop output would really scale up if you provide pops with their Luxury needs thus providing a way for a player to pump up production of their empire without the need to increase the number of pops. However life needs would need to be fulfilled first since they individually would provide better benefit and lack thereof would make pops unhappy. Plus Life need goods would be cheaper than Luxury goods.
Middle Strata:
Base happiness 25% (40% for tribesmen)
0.2 food
Life needs:
0.2 Cloth
0.1 Earthenware
0.1 Olives
Each need provides +10% happiness when fulfilled
Luxury Needs
0.1 Papyrus
0.2 Gems
0.2 Precious Metals
0.2 Stone
Each need provides +10% output when fulfilled. Except Papyrus which does not give anything but if the luxury need is not fulfilled the pop will produce -25% research.
Lower Strata:
Base happiness 70%
0.1 food
Life needs:
0.2 Cloth
0.2 Hemp
Each need provides +10% happiness when fulfilled. Has no Luxury needs, thus easy to gain max efficiency but maxes out at a lower level.
Civilization would no longer increase happiness of Pops but instead increase output of Upper Strata pops and Middle Strata pops by 0.5% for every point of civilization except Tribesmen. Tribesmen would instead get a mallus of 0.5% happiness for every point of civilization. Additionally civilization should increase the research output of the territory by maybe 0.5% per civilization point.
POP ratios
Desired ratios in territories should also be changed because of these changes.
(Non-tribal)
Settlements:
2 (10%) Citizens
2 (10%) Soldiers
2 (10%) Craftsmen
8 (40%) Laborers
6 (30%) Slaves
Cities and Metropoli:
35% Citizens
10% Soldiers
25% Craftsmen
15% Laborers
15% Slaves
Tribal government type would give 20 desired ratio for Tribesmen making their Settlements be 50% tribesmen and their cities 16% tribesmen.
Additionally terrain type should give changes to the desired pop ratio maybe give forests have 2 desired ratio for Tribesmen.
Manpower
Although I prefer to have manpower to tie individually to pops lets keep this simple as this is post is mainly a suggestion for the pops and the economy.
Only Soldier pops innately produce manpower at the rate of 0.01 per pop. However things like laws, government types, and heritages may change this.
Heres an example of a Consription law for monarchies.
Tribal Governments would also give Tribesmen the ability to produce manpower at the rate of 0.003 per pop.
Trade Goods
There will now be additional type of goods, processed goods. Ones that are produced by consuming other goods. These are typically more expensive than the goods that they use up. These are produced by Craftsmen. These production lines should be at around Stellaris levels of complexity rather than Victoria 2. Heres an example of how it would look.
Goods that are classified as food would be used up to fill the Food storage of the province first before they are being used up for production by craftsmen and whats left is sold. Prices of goods would also raise or lower based on supply and demand thus it is not good to merely place all your pops on a territory producing precious metals.
The value of the goods sold would be the basis for tax income of a province. Which would be multiplied by the tax rate which is in the economics tab.
Military
Individual cohorts would now require an additional upkeep of their respective trade goods otherwise you will not be able to reinforce them in addition to a combat penalty. Thus it is no longer possible to create 150 cohorts of Heavy Infantry just because you have 1 Iron available. This would also mean that upkeep of your cohorts would also vary a bit due to the price of respective commodities. Heres a few examples:
I hope the devs can get a few ideas from this.
In the current system pops feel so dead and they seem to be nothing more than stats on the province.
So, here is my suggestion, this is more of an outline of how a system would work:
POP system
First turn the number of pop types from 5 to 7,(A lot less than Victoria 2) then organize them into 3 strata.
Upper Strata would be composed of Nobles and Citizens, these provide the bulk of the research of your empire however they require the most number of goods and are the hardest to keep satisfied.
Middle Strata would be composed of Soldiers, Laborers, Craftsmen, and Tribesmen. They would normally compose the majority of your empire's population and require moderate amount of goods to keep happy. Soldiers, Laborers, Craftsmen produce a quarter of the research produced by Citizens. Tribesmen do not produce any research.
Lower Strata would be principally composed of slaves and require the least amount of goods to satisfy.
Pop types of the same Strata would generally consume the same type and amount of consumer goods.
Nobles and Citizens would produce research and trade routes, thus commerce (more on this after i see how they work in 1.5) with Nobles producing more of both than the citizen. Additionally nobles would also increase the amount of goods produced by Laborers, Tribesmen, and Slaves. Nobles increase output by 2% for every 1% of the territories' pops as Nobles.
However Nobles would start with lower happiness and require a larger amount of trade goods as citizens. Plus there are fewer of them due to desired pop ratios than citizens.
Soldiers are the only pop type that innately produces manpower. But other pop types may produce manpower depending on other factors like conscription laws for citizens and a tribal government type for tribes men.
Craftsmen produce processed goods like weapons, garum, or wine randomly depending on the availability of raw materials in the region.
Laborers, Tribesmen, and Slaves produce the trade good of the province. It would no longer be X amount of pop type for a surplus but something like slaves produce 2 trade goods while Tribesmen and Laborers produce 2.5 trade goods. As said, Laborers and Tribesmen would produce 25% more than slaves but being Middle Strata pops, they require more goods than slaves to be happy plus they start with lower happiness than slaves. Laborers differ from Tribesmen by how civilization affects their productivity in the case of Laborers and happiness in the case of tribesmen.
Pops have different Life and Luxury needs based on their Strata (although Nobles need 50% more than Citizens) in addition to food. Life needs provide bonus happiness when fulfilled while Luxury needs provide output bonus when fulfilled.
A Citizen needs:
Base happiness 20%
0.4 food
Life needs:
0.2 Cloth
0.2 Earthenware
0.1 Papyrus
0.2 Olives
0.2 Wine
Each need provides +7.5% happiness when fulfilled
Luxury Needs
0.2 Garum
0.2 Dye
0.2 Gems
0.2 Precious Metals
0.2 Marble
0.2 Honey
0.2 Dates
Each need provides +7.5% output when fulfilled.
All of these require 50% for Nobles.
Thus Pop output would really scale up if you provide pops with their Luxury needs thus providing a way for a player to pump up production of their empire without the need to increase the number of pops. However life needs would need to be fulfilled first since they individually would provide better benefit and lack thereof would make pops unhappy. Plus Life need goods would be cheaper than Luxury goods.
Middle Strata:
Base happiness 25% (40% for tribesmen)
0.2 food
Life needs:
0.2 Cloth
0.1 Earthenware
0.1 Olives
Each need provides +10% happiness when fulfilled
Luxury Needs
0.1 Papyrus
0.2 Gems
0.2 Precious Metals
0.2 Stone
Each need provides +10% output when fulfilled. Except Papyrus which does not give anything but if the luxury need is not fulfilled the pop will produce -25% research.
Lower Strata:
Base happiness 70%
0.1 food
Life needs:
0.2 Cloth
0.2 Hemp
Each need provides +10% happiness when fulfilled. Has no Luxury needs, thus easy to gain max efficiency but maxes out at a lower level.
Civilization would no longer increase happiness of Pops but instead increase output of Upper Strata pops and Middle Strata pops by 0.5% for every point of civilization except Tribesmen. Tribesmen would instead get a mallus of 0.5% happiness for every point of civilization. Additionally civilization should increase the research output of the territory by maybe 0.5% per civilization point.
POP ratios
Desired ratios in territories should also be changed because of these changes.
(Non-tribal)
Settlements:
2 (10%) Citizens
2 (10%) Soldiers
2 (10%) Craftsmen
8 (40%) Laborers
6 (30%) Slaves
Cities and Metropoli:
35% Citizens
10% Soldiers
25% Craftsmen
15% Laborers
15% Slaves
Tribal government type would give 20 desired ratio for Tribesmen making their Settlements be 50% tribesmen and their cities 16% tribesmen.
Additionally terrain type should give changes to the desired pop ratio maybe give forests have 2 desired ratio for Tribesmen.
Manpower
Although I prefer to have manpower to tie individually to pops lets keep this simple as this is post is mainly a suggestion for the pops and the economy.
Only Soldier pops innately produce manpower at the rate of 0.01 per pop. However things like laws, government types, and heritages may change this.
Heres an example of a Consription law for monarchies.
Tribal Governments would also give Tribesmen the ability to produce manpower at the rate of 0.003 per pop.
Trade Goods
There will now be additional type of goods, processed goods. Ones that are produced by consuming other goods. These are typically more expensive than the goods that they use up. These are produced by Craftsmen. These production lines should be at around Stellaris levels of complexity rather than Victoria 2. Heres an example of how it would look.
Goods that are classified as food would be used up to fill the Food storage of the province first before they are being used up for production by craftsmen and whats left is sold. Prices of goods would also raise or lower based on supply and demand thus it is not good to merely place all your pops on a territory producing precious metals.
The value of the goods sold would be the basis for tax income of a province. Which would be multiplied by the tax rate which is in the economics tab.
Military
Individual cohorts would now require an additional upkeep of their respective trade goods otherwise you will not be able to reinforce them in addition to a combat penalty. Thus it is no longer possible to create 150 cohorts of Heavy Infantry just because you have 1 Iron available. This would also mean that upkeep of your cohorts would also vary a bit due to the price of respective commodities. Heres a few examples:
I hope the devs can get a few ideas from this.
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