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wryun

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Since Paradox has basically stated that if EU3 ever existed it would be far into the future, and Johan (quite understandably) has little time to devote to patching, what are the downsides for Paradox if they release the code to a few selected people in order to continue patching the game? Not allowing them to distribute the whole game, but just to put out small patches through these forums as Johan has recently.

Possible issues (and why I think they're irrelevant):
  • [*]There are 'trade secrets' in the code that no one's allowed to look at. Firstly, I think if they selected people who were obviously committed to the game it would be highly unlikely for these to be disclosed. And the game itself has no enormously complex technical stuff as far as I can see, while their 'engine' has already undergone significant improvement for later games (EU2's hardly cutting edge anymore...).
    [*]There are expensive tools used, or material which is copyrighted by a company other than Paradox. Well, people interested could always buy them :) And these would be most likely involved in the maps and such-like: although the ability to modify these would be nice, I'm sure most of us would think that some tweaking of the basic code would be a lot better than nothing.
    [*]Even if EU3 was planned for 2010, a significantly improved EU2 would undermine it. By 2010 we could assume that graphics/gameplay/platforms would have advanced far beyond those current, and hobbyists have a track record of not implementing major interface changes (see the Steel Panthers series for an example). But at any rate, Paradox could have the option to 'withdraw' the code at any time they wanted.
    [*]There's nothing serious that really needs changing. Have you seen the buglist lately :)? Or the wishlist :D?
    [*]You can't let people loose like that. They'll destroy the game. You could always just use the last official patch. Or the 1.05 patch, as some (crazy!) people persist in doing! Hell, there are probably people playing the game who've never even looked around the internet for the latest patch (or don't have a connection! Oh, the horror...).
    [*]But the first thing that they'll do is hack together some quick changes so you can really play in, say, Victoria's timeframe. Paradox won't like that. Paradox could, as part of allowing certain people to modify the code, restrict the areas in which they can modify it. If the specially selected people were stupid enough to ignore these, Paradox could make threatening legal noises and not distribute it, at the very least ensuring that it didn't garner a wide audience and its affect on Victoria sales was minimal.
So those are the (tiny) negatives for Paradox; what would they get out of it though? A hell of a lot of good will, for one thing... people here more likely to play later games. And they could, when they next feel the urge to get some extra cash, release EU2 again as EU Super Deluxe or something (they just released EU Deluxe, remember), and it could target those who'd not yet bought the game.

Disclaimer: Ok, I realise I'm living in la-la land here, and there are probably really good reasons why this would be totally unfeasible - certainly I have no real knowledge about how game companies work. But I can dream, no?
 
M

Mowers

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Whilst I think this is well put together I think its currently unnecessary.

I think that Johan retains a strong interest in the game and I believe from previous experience that future changes are likely. If I were to run a second tsunami and if Johan were to take part in a second Tsunami game then I am convinced that further changes will come through the game.

However, Victoria is currently taking a lot of concentration, so if HoI production is anything to go on, I doubt that we will see anything soon. Victoria is a very complex model, much more so than previous projects, so I wonder if Johan can really give 100% to both right now. I think it’s important that Victoria is a great success, and I feel confident that paradox will return to EU2 in the future.

But in the mean time I know that the best way to drive change is to demonstrate a problem. We conclusively demonstrated this in the MGC series and I really hope that some of the existing games will provide some formal feedback on changes that they feel is required.

Mowers
 

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Whatever enterprising code-rangers out there who are waiting for the source code could fill their spare time by working on a thoroughly updated manual to reflect v1.07b, complete with all previously undocumented features in the meantime... :D :D :D
 

Castellon

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Originally posted by Captain America
Whatever enterprising code-rangers out there who are waiting for the source code could fill their spare time by working on a thoroughly updated manual to reflect v1.07b, complete with all previously undocumented features in the meantime... :D :D :D

You get started and let us know how it is going. :)
 

Castellon

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Originally posted by wryun

Disclaimer: Ok, I realise I'm living in la-la land here,...

Good that you are grounded in reality. :D
 

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Originally posted by Castellon
You get started and let us know how it is going. :)

It'd only be hard doing the initial compilation of information, from then on, it'd be easy to keep up with the patches...biggest hitch from my end: no time :(

As for releasing the source code, would it be easier for Paradox to bring on a few of the interested parties as unpaid virtual interns? After all, if the source code were released, it's not like Paradox would be paying them necessarily anyways...

That way the helpers would be held to Paradox's NDAs *and* Paradox would have a few more bodies helping out on the EU2 (and potentially other games) front...feasible?
 

Carolus Rex

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Well, as always I'm the flakcannon around here, so, here goes : Johan was asked to released the sourcecode for EU1 some time ago, but said no, so, uh, don't count on this oen either. ;)
 

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Originally posted by Carolus Rex
Well, as always I'm the flakcannon around here, so, here goes : Johan was asked to released the sourcecode for EU1 some time ago, but said no, so, uh, don't count on this oen either. ;)

Can't say as I really blame him.

The "virtual" Paradox employees sound nice though. I know I would dearly love to work on the programming.

*wonders how to get a Paradox Top Secret Clearance*
 

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Manual

Well, maybe they could release the source (Word, Framemaker, or Acrobat, or whatever) of the current manual. That would get *me* started updating it.
 

Khephren

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Originally posted by Carolus Rex
Pretty sisters.

Have 1 pretty sister, if I throw in my wife, what will that get me??
 

wryun

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Originally posted by Mowers
Whilst I think this is well put together I think its currently unnecessary.

I think that Johan retains a strong interest in the game and I believe from previous experience that future changes are likely. If I were to run a second tsunami and if Johan were to take part in a second Tsunami game then I am convinced that further changes will come through the game.

While I realise that Johan probably hasn't yet given up on the game, and further minor tweaks will come through, there are a fair number of bugs that have been present for some time that he's indicated an unwillingness to fix (such as the AI retreating cavalry siege armies, and causing yours to retreat). Simple enhancements would also make the game much more enjoyable: e.g. making the merchant auto-send function send 2 at a time.

Finally, when regular changes are happening, interest tends to be maintained (witness the excitement when the public beta was throwing up stuff). This could only be enhanced if more regular releases were coming from somewhere, so EU2 could be a popular game for the next 10 years instead of slowly fading over the next 2. EU2 is certainly not 'terminal' yet, and I think doing this while it is still popular will help keep it that way.

To Carolus: I'm not asking for a general release of the source code, just for Paradox to acquire some unpaid employees, probably in much the same way they acquire beta-testers.

(and hey, manual people, go away and hijack someone else's thread :D)
 
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Re: Manual

Originally posted by Rubel
Well, maybe they could release the source (Word, Framemaker, or Acrobat, or whatever) of the current manual. That would get *me* started updating it.

You are the wind beneath my wings :D
 

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Originally posted by wryun

(and hey, manual people, go away a hijack someone elses thread :D)

Not a hijacker...just a parasite

But point taken, I'll stick to my own "A real manual for 1.07b or 1.08?" thread from now on :D
 
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Arilou

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I thought this was a suggestion for adding an event that lets England eat irish babies...
 

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Originally posted by Arilou
I thought this was a suggestion for adding an event that lets England eat irish babies...

I think the idea was that both have about as much chance of getting enacted :D
 

wryun

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Originally posted by Captain America
I think the idea was that both have about as much chance of getting enacted :D

Something like that. But the parallel with Swift's one is certainly not exact - I actually support this suggestion!

Originally posted by
Sonny

You've mistaken him for a fart under your armpit.

You people just can't help yourselves :( :D