A mechanic that fails the reality test

[brifbates]

So, three attempts in a row at conquering Austria have ended with them neing focus-absorbed by other nations when they were days (if not hours) away from capitulation. Instead of getting at least an option to carry on with my conquest I instead get exiled armies and a lost war justification. This is utterly ridiculous and completely illogical. Just because they supposedly vote this other guy in as king I'm supposed to accept it and just walk away with nothing despite routing their armies and occupying most of their country? In what world would that happen?

 

[unmerged(485085)]

So, three attempts in a row at conquering Austria have ended with them neing focus-absorbed by other nations when they were days (if not hours) away from capitulation. Instead of getting at least an option to carry on with my conquest I instead get exiled armies and a lost war justification. This is utterly ridiculous and completely illogical. Just because they supposedly vote this other guy in as king I'm supposed to accept it and just walk away with nothing despite routing their armies and occupying most of their country? In what world would that happen?

What country are you playing?

 

[brifbates]

What country are you playing?

Does it matter? The mechanic is the problem, it would play out the exact same way no matter who I am playing and it would be nonsensical no matter who I'm playing. I'm about to conquer them and they say "oh, we'd rather be swallowed by these other guys" and I'm forced to just accept it and walk away with nothing except dead soldiers and busted equipment incurred to that point. In the real world an invading nation wouldn't give a rat's arse if the nation they were invading said "oh, we're part of that nation now". It makes no sense at all, at the very least I should be given the option to carry on from the status quo, fighting their remnants plus their new overlord (if they choose to contest the issue).

 

[Herennius]

I think a fairly realistic solution in that case would be the war just continuing with Germany instead of Austria as opponent; perhaps paired with the alternate option to sign a white peace like the OP experienced it.

 

[PorkchopSandwiches247]

Yeah, this is annoying mechanic. I think theres a few others that use the same ‘nuh uh get off the land you conquered its ours now’ moments. Its why I dont care about using cheesy ai exploits to counter the goofiness and cheapness of some of the gameplay elements.

That said, the logical alternative is that Germany, having acquired the rights to Austrian land mid war, should just declare war on you instead over the land dispute. Which, probably, would be a game over…unless youre Italy. Maybe Czechs?

 

[brifbates]

I think a fairly realistic solution in that case would be the war just continuing with Germany instead of Austria as opponent; perhaps paired with the alternate option to sign a white peace like the OP experienced it.

That said, the logical alternative is that Germany, having acquired the rights to Austrian land mid war, should just declare war on you instead over the land dispute. Which, probably, would be a game over…unless youre Italy. Maybe Czechs?

Actually 2 of the three times it was Hungary, not Germany.

I'd be okay with a mechanic where the new ruler sends an ultimatum and you get to choose to fight or not. That would both make reasonable sense as an outcome and give you the option to choose to carry on or not. The issue I have is the being forced to back down no matter what the actual conditions are. After all, the same result would occur if it was Germany attacking Luxembourg and they got absorbed by Belgium-it's not a situation reserved for nations that would logically be forced to back down in the face of the new owner after all.

 

[vermicious knid]

There are a lot of rough edges in the diplomacy system (such as it is) that create utterly implausible scenarios. Many/most of them are the result of some national focus firing. I'd love to see some fallback reality-check mechanic in place.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

Theres no other way, DOW on countries annexed by focus, is always a risk move.

But youre hungary, and is very close to austria,,, perhaps cheese it with paratroopers can work?

"in real life" don't apply here, if hungary atack austria at time Germany was finding a excuse to annex it, they will probably dow on hungary.,

 

[brifbates]

"in real life" don't apply here, if hungary atack austria at time Germany was finding a excuse to annex it, they will probably dow on hungary.,

And like I said, the situation isn't reserved for nations who would necessarily be forced to back down when it happens. It could just as easily be Germany, the USSR, or the USA falling afoul of the stupidity as the likes of Hungary. As it currently stands the system is 100% broken in the stupidest way they possibly could have arranged it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What country are you playing?

for the purposes of op's complaint, the question is irrelevant. it doesn't matter if he's playing as italy, switzerland, japan, or chad. if you're occupying stuff, any attempt to say otherwise should give the player the option to say "you want it? take it by force".

"in real life" don't apply here, if hungary atack austria at time Germany was finding a excuse to annex it, they will probably dow on hungary.,

this isn't just a realism argument, but also a gameplay one. it is toxic and unjustifiable in a design sense, in a game about fighting wars over territory, to allow nations to take territory w/o the option for war by the defender to keep it. the reason it's unjustifiable is that it's necessarily arbitrary and creates internal inconsistencies.

creating an ultimatum where the attacker gives up or immediately goes to war with new controller is reasonable. force ending a war out of nowhere with a claim that magically just disappears is not reasonable.

not only does vanilla do this, a lot of mods do it as well, some to an extreme degree. kaiserreich was particularly egregious in that regard until they decided to just remove the ability for most nations to play the game before 1939 to prevent unforeseen interactions.