A major problem with the campaign difficulty, but with an easy solution.

[Panpiper]

Is it really that hard to look at the difficulty rating of a given world and compare that with the recent actions you've undertaken and come to a reasonable analysis of whether you're ready for the new tier of shenanigans?

I'm asking that seriously because it seems like more than one person is asserting it is.

You would think that it wouldn't be that hard, but sadly, apparently it is. In Odd's latest forinstance, he just got wiped out by what was listed as a one and a half skull mission. He looked at the available contracts on the planet he found himself. He advanced time to get himself repaired (instead of using travel time to do so) without once so much as looking at the navigation screen. Then he picked a two and a half skull mission to do.

Was this a reasoned decision? Did he think to himself, "I just got wiped out by a one and a half skull mission. Clearly the appropriate thing to do now is to not bother to look at other possible missions, but to jump straight at one of the two and a half skull missions where I am." I seriously doubt any rational person would think that. Instead what has happened here is that he simply forgot about the option to check the navigation screen. He thought his only options for missions were the three presented to him and resigned himself to giving it a try.

I think some sort of reminder is in order here. That or to make the difficulty of that planet one skull lower. Once the player runs out of those one and a half skull missions, I hope by then they have figured out that a navigation screen exists and that they can choose to go elsewhere. I fully expect half of them none the less to automatically select the sole transport included mission that then wisks them off to a two and a half skull mission, again utterly oblivious to the fact that this is not their only choice.

Maybe a lowering of that planet's difficulty AND a tutorial handhold reminder is in order here.

 

[KristoffVonK]

You can lead the horse to water but can't make him drink. Or more southernly as i prefer, "ya can't help stupid"

 

[Exemplar Voss]

I don't see this as a 'major problem,' or something that needs adjustment. There is plenty of time to learn the ropes, farm, and work out how contracts and travel work before this point.

Adjusting it for a single data point from a youtuber is a bit of an over reaction. If you expect people to make a mission selection without realizing that there are other options, there is nothing you can do for them, as mission selections are consistently presented as multiple choice.

 

[Tnarien]

You would think that it wouldn't be that hard, but sadly, apparently it is. In Odd's latest forinstance, he just got wiped out by what was listed as a one and a half skull mission. He looked at the available contracts on the planet he found himself. He advanced time to get himself repaired (instead of using travel time to do so) without once so much as looking at the navigation screen. Then he picked a two and a half skull mission to do.

Was this a reasoned decision? Did he think to himself, "I just got wiped out by a one and a half skull mission. Clearly the appropriate thing to do now is to not bother to look at other possible missions, but to jump straight at one of the two and a half skull missions where I am." I seriously doubt any rational person would think that. Instead what has happened here is that he simply forgot about the option to check the navigation screen. He thought his only options for missions were the three presented to him and resigned himself to giving it a try.

I think some sort of reminder is in order here. That or to make the difficulty of that planet one skull lower. Once the player runs out of those one and a half skull missions, I hope by then they have figured out that a navigation screen exists and that they can choose to go elsewhere. I fully expect half of them none the less to automatically select the sole transport included mission that then wisks them off to a two and a half skull mission, again utterly oblivious to the fact that this is not their only choice.

Maybe a lowering of that planet's difficulty AND a tutorial handhold reminder is in order here.

So what you're saying is...

Information was given to the player, yet the player refused to react accordingly, and now we need to re-adjust the game as a result of a player not using information given to them?

That makes zero sense to me. The capacity to have areas that you simply arent able to handle is a good thing in a sandbox-type experience IMO.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

In the case of ODD he stated he was following the advice of doing one side mission and then a main mission. It looks like it would be better to do more side missions to learn more about how the game works and these early missions are perfect tutorials on what missions are like (1/2 -1 skull). But I do see how non BT players are going to be up against it on the first Platform mission where even the PDX staff mentioned their mechs were wrecked by towers. But this is a great teaching tool on what you should do and not do. I expect most people will reload after this mission and try again, learning each time until they get it right. Alternatively they will hunt the internet for how to do this mission.

 

[kvetcha]

Odd would be having a much better time of things on Twitch, where he could get real-time feedback. As it is, he asks a ton of random questions during his Lets Play, then has to review his comments hours after the fact and try to match the answers to the questions he may not remember even asking.

 

[ThatGuyMontag]

On the tutorial question, I think people are misunderstanding the design philosophy that HBS are following. At the very least I remember Kiva posting somewhere that the Leopard is her secret, balance trump card. The goal very clearly is for people to learn how to play this game by actually playing it. The reason the Leopard is important is that it acts as a gate on higher level content by limiting players while also making it easier to recover from failure. It also means that the entire period before you get the Argo can be treated like an extended tutorial, with failure being an important part of that tutorial because the game needs to teach us to be okay with failure to get us to enjoy the style of game it's aiming for.

As for the streamers, for what it's worth, I'm enjoying watching them. I've purposely gone the VOD/Youtube route to do so because I really don't want the story spoiled, but Christopher Odd's has been one of the better ones: he's genuinely trying to learn and it's been interesting watching him learn from his mistakes. I'm already a bit of a fan of Cohh's, but he's not quite as considered as Odd, in part because he's already committed to restarting the campaign after launch so he's been doing quite a lot of messing about and playing with systems.

As for the cynicism about Cohh, it's completely unfounded. I recently started watching some of his streams independently of his Battletech content (him streaming it was a bit of a coincidence really) and he's clearly genuine. He's already very open that even though streaming is his job, he's making all the money he needs to support his family so he's at the point where he's just playing games he wants to play the way he wants to play them. If you enjoy watching that brilliant, but if not there are plenty of other places to go. Frankly, it's kind of refreshing watching someone quite explicitly *not* shilling for money. Hell, that's a lot of the reason HBS have earned my respect: it really feels as though they're making this game because they're fans who are in a position to get the game made.

 

[Joanna]

I didn't think anyone expected the streamers to dazzle us with their tactical brilliance. They make mistakes, and move on, they seem to actually like the game and are creating interest in a game many of us love. BT has been absent for a long time, generating interest in it is a fantastic thing and I applaud the streamers for doing that. It actually provides HBS some valuable feedback. I don't think HBS wants to produce a brutal game that people with 30+ years of TT experience are most likely going to fail at repeatedly. How could a newer player that doesn't understand how weapons work possibly enjoy getting wiped out repeatedly after a couple missions? Sure I wouldn't mind a game that challenges me and forces me to use every bit of knowledge I've acquired over the years to have a chance to succeed, but HBS would be insane to make a game like that. I already know how I'm going to set up my lance and how I'm going to train my pilots. I understand weapon ranges and how to balance heat and damage. HBS needs to make the game appealing to new players, so they can bring new blood into the BT ranks, while creating just enough challenge to keep us diehards interested. Besides they have already told us that modding will be possible, enabling us to create our own difficulty slider...

 

[MacroNova]

If you open the map and look at other planets, is it clear which ones have easier missions?

 

[kvetcha]

If you open the map and look at other planets, is it clear which ones have easier missions?

The threat level is shown when you click the system.

 

[stjobe]

On the tutorial question, I think people are misunderstanding the design philosophy that HBS are following. At the very least I remember Kiva posting somewhere that the Leopard is her secret, balance trump card. The goal very clearly is for people to learn how to play this game by actually playing it. The reason the Leopard is important is that it acts as a gate on higher level content by limiting players while also making it easier to recover from failure. It also means that the entire period before you get the Argo can be treated like an extended tutorial, with failure being an important part of that tutorial because the game needs to teach us to be okay with failure to get us to enjoy the style of game it's aiming for.

Indeed. There's no rush getting to the Argo, nor to the next story mission.

If I would change one thing to make the experience smoother for the new players, I would increase the number of side missions needed before the next story mission pops up.

Spend some time, build your strength - isn't that what we're told to do? And then we jump straight into the next story mission as soon as it becomes available

I even seem to recall our comms guy saying "we don't need to take it immediately" when one of the first story missions pop up.

 

[me987654]

Odd's having fun - who cares if he's taking everyone's l33t uber advice.

I honestly I think it's kind of awesome when streamers do crazy builds I would never do.... fun to watch

 

[Varkin]

I think this game is far too complex to let players just figure stuff out on their own. It would take them months (and most of them would probably lose interest long before that). I'm still a fan of tutorials, although maybe not forced tutorials like in the intro. The conversations with the crew aren't enough; the players must SEE what concept is being illustrated sometimes.
I think the tutorials of MechCommander 2 were perfect: you could load them at the intro screen and do some training whenever you wanted.

Without this option, you are basically forcing the players to fail in order to learn. So you're forcing them one way or the other.

So I have a number of friends that have bought the game or I have bought it for them as gifts. Because of what I have seen so far (from the staggering number of streamer/youtuber hours I have watched and these forums) and knowing them, I created a cheat sheet of notes to give them tips on some of the mechanics of the game that I feel are not that well documented.

 

[Varkin]

Odd's having fun - who cares if he's taking everyone's l33t uber advice.

I honestly I think it's kind of awesome when streamers do crazy builds I would never do.... fun to watch

I don't care how he plays skill wise or anything like that it is not high on my list of important things. I just don't find him as entertaining to watch as some others Speaking of entertaining, I need more streams!!!

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Odd would be having a much better time of things on Twitch, where he could get real-time feedback. As it is, he asks a ton of random questions during his Lets Play, then has to review his comments hours after the fact and try to match the answers to the questions he may not remember even asking.

Nope. He'd immediately get 20 variations of at least six different opinions on questions that only have four answers. Plus one for how things work in MWO, plus one for how things work on tabletop.

 

[Cyttorak001]

So I have a number of friends that have bought the game or I have bought it for them as gifts. Because of what I have seen so far (from the staggering number of streamer/youtuber hours I have watched and these forums) and knowing them, I created a cheat sheet of notes to give them tips on some of the mechanics of the game that I feel are not that well documented.

That is a very good thing to do. I also just posted a tutorial sheet in the user content subforum.

 

[QunQiyah]

This is a game where you choose where you go and when, the learning curve is there, its your choice to follow it or not

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

The one thing I have noticed about the various streamers I have observed... They all pay attention to different things than I do. As a TT player there are things I inherently understand, so I am drawn to the new item. Like as I [proxy] drag mechs to a drop and notice 1.5 skulls when the mission was 2.5, while the streamers are getting over whether to put the Guts pilot in the Spider because it doesn't have much armor and Bulwark could help.
Or when a demolisher shows up and the continue to focus on the locust with 4 evasion chevrons.

 

[KristoffVonK]

The one thing I have noticed about the various streamers I have observed... They all pay attention to different things than I do. As a TT player there are things I inherently understand, so I am drawn to the new item. Like as I [proxy] drag mechs to a drop and notice 1.5 skulls when the mission was 2.5, while the streamers are getting over whether to put the Guts pilot in the Spider because it doesn't have much armor and Bulwark could help.
Or when a demolisher shows up and the continue to focus on the locust with 4 evasion chevrons.

Yeah i think thats just because you actually KNOW whats going on ( i grew up with th TT game as well)...as in yes that locust sure looks scary, but if you or i see a Devastator or LRM carrier pop up we KNOW they need to die asap I dont mean it as being better then anyone else, i mean familiar with loadouts and such that you know what things are threats immediately.....I still will probably get myself killed but thats more than okay!

 

[Whiskiz]

To keep both vets and newbs happy, should have an offer early to do a side mission (that you can then obviously opt out of) while clearly showing it's just an advanced tutorial - has no part in the story and is mainly for those new to Battletech.

You drop with a rando no-name faction and rando stuff happens as needed.

Problem solved.