A long time paradox fan's humble idea on fixing the learning curve

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cloudwasher

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You want to fix the learning curve with HOI4 without destroying the complexity? My suggestion would be the look at civilization 5, and in specific their civilopedia feature. The thing that always frustrates me about paradox games is that while everything was well laid out and explained in the manual of EU 1, there seems to have been a trend since then of putting more and more complex mechanics and and leaving people to figure it out for themselves. While the egos of a few hardcore paradox fans such as myself who enjoy decoding these complex back rules may be hurt by explaining some of them, there would also be some value in knowing what's going on.

For example, in HOI3 throws around a lot of terminology, such as 'tendency to drift to internal pressures' or difference between morale and organization. On the surface I can guess from the name what it means but it'd be helpful to have a reference source where I can see everything it affects. Instead of leaving the new player to spend 10-12 hours trying to figure out what 75% of it means and never fully knowing what the other 25% affects, why not include something such as a civilopedia that would be an accessible in game reference that lists and explains every modifier or terminology used. Obviously I'm not saying steal it outright, but as far as in game references that turn a complex game into a much easier to hand one it is among the best.

I'm not as young as I once was and don't have as much time with work and whatnot these days to tackle the learning curve... Keep the complexity but please give me something I can access in game that explains every piece of vocabulary/terminology used so I don't have to run to a wiki or forums every 2 minutes for the first few months that I play.
 

rongyuyao

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You want to fix the learning curve with HOI4 without destroying the complexity? My suggestion would be the look at civilization 5, and in specific their civilopedia feature. The thing that always frustrates me about paradox games is that while everything was well laid out and explained in the manual of EU 1, there seems to have been a trend since then of putting more and more complex mechanics and and leaving people to figure it out for themselves. While the egos of a few hardcore paradox fans such as myself who enjoy decoding these complex back rules may be hurt by explaining some of them, there would also be some value in knowing what's going on.

For example, in HOI3 throws around a lot of terminology, such as 'tendency to drift to internal pressures' or difference between morale and organization. On the surface I can guess from the name what it means but it'd be helpful to have a reference source where I can see everything it affects. Instead of leaving the new player to spend 10-12 hours trying to figure out what 75% of it means and never fully knowing what the other 25% affects, why not include something such as a civilopedia that would be an accessible in game reference that lists and explains every modifier or terminology used. Obviously I'm not saying steal it outright, but as far as in game references that turn a complex game into a much easier to hand one it is among the best.

I'm not as young as I once was and don't have as much time with work and whatnot these days to tackle the learning curve... Keep the complexity but please give me something I can access in game that explains every piece of vocabulary/terminology used so I don't have to run to a wiki or forums every 2 minutes for the first few months that I play.
I think EU4 did a pretty good job with that compared to the other games.
 

BBBD316

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I have no idea what drift does, so I choose that every time.

I think the MOTE and EUIV systems of pop ups when you hover over, which can be turned off should be sufficient
 

Easy1

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The Total War genre also has this and it is very usefull
 

GunslingerV

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Actually most of the mechanics are explained in the manual Paradox provides with every game

But most people buy the digital versions and don't bother to download the digital manual (which I skimmed through while downloading HOI3 on launch date) :rofl:

So, yes I do agree with you that an in-game copy of the manual would be nice.
 

DPKdebator

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What they need is a "master's guide for beginners"
 

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I have no idea what drift does, so I choose that every time.

I think the MOTE and EUIV systems of pop ups when you hover over, which can be turned off should be sufficient

I'd second that, IF the pop ups could be modified by mouseover delay time AND the player could control where, on the screen, the pop ups appear.
 

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As was said, HOI 3's main problem was the lack of good pop-ups explaining exactly what things were and how they worked. I remember being new to HOI3 and not understanding anything. What's up with the HQs and the command hierarchy? What the heck are "practicals" and "serial" and "parallel" production runs? Why is this unit not moving when I order it to? Etc. etc. etc.

In EU3, by contrast, I could ease into the game because while there of course still were some things I didn't understand at first, most everything was explained to me so well by the game.
 

General Baker

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I think EU4 did a pretty good job with that compared to the other games.
Yes, it's ingame wiki guide panel was very good.

Definitely room for improvement though, and perhaps it should be a bit more obviously flagged as a 'go-to' point for players.

They could also be really really REALLY really (really) smart and help contribute to the community wiki, instead of producing rather long and (rather quickly outdated) manuals for their games. Perhaps when we research Aeronautical Swine (1944) in the tech tree...