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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Lord E

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Invading South-Africa now that sure is a way to get the focus and the war away from the home front, I don’t think that would have been possible in HoI2 or 3. At least not if the British naval AI very doing its job, but in HoI1 these kid of things were possible and very funny to do. I think you are doing very well, but I wonder how you progressed next. Did you invade Europe as well? Looking forward to read what happened next…
 

Rensslaer

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I do miss the wild west-like aspects of HOI 1! There was really a sense while playing it that anything was possible. The idea of Argentina schlepping troops across the southern Atlantic to invade and conquer South Africa! Amazing stuff! Way to keep the Brits off balance and lucky for you that they became "too busy" to deal with the "minor" power of Argentina.

I'm not sure I ever realized how open-ended it was, because as I've alluded to I tended to try to keep within a realistic framework (which is why I refused the HMS Eagle, etc.). But you're right, the age of Paradox-imposed limits was less alive then than the user-imposed limits, which could be equally constrictive, but were more voluntary on the part of the users. Things like V1's VIP mod come to mind.

Rensslaer: ...When I finally finished building some more of my own cruisers, I started to feel more confident.

do you recall the approximate size of your navy at that time ? ?

Rensslaer:
...I resolved upon a strategy very much like what you'll see in my HOI 3 AAR Imperio Novo ...

i can certainly vouch for each AAR you have - that i have read - and, i think that i have read all of them ! ! :D

how close to September 1, 1939, was this ? ? (building cruisers and then capturing the Ascension Islands, then moving the fight to South Africa could have taken you to, or even past, the start of WW2: ) the UK having to fight the Germans, et al, could have covered your backside quite well ! ! ;)

that was a very nice surprise ! ! :D

awesome update ! !
:cool:


Thanks, GhostWriter! Your flattery is humbling, but appreciated! :) I think I would only have had time to build one or two cruisers, and maybe some destroyers or subs (probably subs -- would have fit my thinking better). But since to that point I hadn't seen the British AI send out more than a few ships against me at a time (that initial set, which I captured, being the largest I'd seen), I figured a fleet of maybe 5 cruisers was all I needed to fend them off. I got the impression the UK wasn't willing to send a REAL fleet after me, nor either a REAL invasion fleet.

Thinking back, it seems to me that when I invaded South Africa itself, the war in Europe hadn't yet started, but it was very tense. However, probably by the time I finished conquering S. Africa (it did take quite a bit of effort, and several shuttles of troops overseas, since I was limited by transport capacity) Sept 1939 had come and the war was on. At that point, I believe I was able to join the Axis.

As far as I know, the AI has no limitations to naval range in HOI:1.

This is pretty cool. It is still the Paradox title I play the most.

Keep up the good work Renss...

That's pretty cool, TheExecuter, that you still play this. I did very much enjoy it -- there was a degree of relative simplicity that appeals.... But then again I'm a grognard and so complexity appeals to me too. :D HOI 3 is really my dream game now.

You're probably right that HOI 1 doesn't have naval range restrictions. But perhaps it was an "AI attention horizon range" that I was seeing in action. I found that once I took Ascension Island, that became the focus of British attention (and later, S. Africa) so that Argentina itself was secure.

Invading South-Africa now that sure is a way to get the focus and the war away from the home front, I don’t think that would have been possible in HoI2 or 3. At least not if the British naval AI very doing its job, but in HoI1 these kid of things were possible and very funny to do. I think you are doing very well, but I wonder how you progressed next. Did you invade Europe as well? Looking forward to read what happened next…

You're right -- the naval AI in later sequels improved, and realistically it shouldn't have been possible. But then again, if the British naval AI in HOI 3 had been working properly, Portugal would never have been able to pull off what it/I did in Imperio Novo! :D The AI does well enough against conventional strategies... less so against players who do the unexpected, which is kind of the norm for me. Thanks!

Thanks, everybody! I certainly appreciate readership at ANY level here, in the sleepy HOI 1 forum. :) The past 2 weeks has been pretty incredible, as I've somehow found time to update 4 separate AARs (HOI 1, HOI 3, Victoria 2 and EU 3). I'll see if I can keep that up.

I'll try to update this later today, or so.

Rensslaer
 

Rensslaer

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For this update, I'm going to repeat some of the feedback from above, because that feedback was detailed enough to constitute part of an update, and also because the update would be incomplete without also taking note of these points.

Thanks, GhostWriter [question was about size of my fleet]! Your flattery is humbling, but appreciated! I think I would only have had time to build one or two cruisers, and maybe some destroyers or subs (probably subs -- would have fit my thinking better). But since to that point I hadn't seen the British AI send out more than a few ships against me at a time (that initial set, which I captured, being the largest I'd seen), I figured a fleet of maybe 5 cruisers was all I needed to fend them off. I got the impression the UK wasn't willing to send a REAL fleet after me, nor either a REAL invasion fleet.

Thinking back, it seems to me that when I invaded South Africa itself, the war in Europe hadn't yet started, but it was very tense. However, probably by the time I finished conquering S. Africa (it did take quite a bit of effort, and several shuttles of troops overseas, since I was limited by transport capacity) Sept 1939 had come and the war was on. At that point, I believe I was able to join the Axis.

So once I had South Africa (I don't remember if I completely secured the whole thing -- seems like I might have had to continue holding off armies from the north, coming through Rhodesia), where from there?

My answer was to invade the French and British possessions of the Caribbean!

I spent some time securing these islands, as I recall, and it was during this period of time that World War II officially started, with the German invasion of Poland, which of course immediately launched conflict along the Maginot Line (which isn't historical, but it always happened in HOI 1, that I recall). This took some of the pressure off of Argentina, and I figured I was taking some of the pressure off the Germans, too!

All in all, I couldn't have controlled very much of Britain's IC -- enough to help me some, but not enough to greatly handicap her. But I do wonder (and I never "peeked" to see) how much I disrupted her commerce and/or naval operations.

Here's more feedback, to TheExecuter, about naval range, which he reminded me probably didn't exist. You're probably right that HOI 1 doesn't have naval range restrictions. But perhaps it was an "AI attention horizon range" that I was seeing in action. I found that once I took Ascension Island, that became the focus of British attention (and later, S. Africa) so that Argentina itself was secure.

So (feedback off), I think I kept the Royal Navy occupied in a very disruptive way, so that they could not focus on Argentina, and I would bet (just knowing how the AI assigns targets) they also couldn't focus as effectively on securing the Mediterranean and/or North Atlantic.

Taking over the Allied possessions of the Caribbean took a while, as I mentioned. I recall I did dive into Belize, too, at one point, securing that for myself. Then where?
 

unmerged(53911)

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My guess would be Bermuda.
 

unmerged(24320)

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Rensslaer: ...Sept 1939 had come and the war was on. At that point, I believe I was able to join the Axis.

OK

Rensslaer:
...This took some of the pressure off of Argentina, and I figured I was taking some of the pressure off the Germans, too!

no doubt that you were taking some pressure off of the Germans ! ! :)

that could have had the same effect of a two, three, or even four front war. the more you overload the AI, the less it is capable of ! ! :rolleyes:

Rensslaer:
...So (feedback off), I think I kept the Royal Navy occupied in a very disruptive way, so that they could not focus on Argentina, and I would bet (just knowing how the AI assigns targets) they also couldn't focus as effectively on securing the Mediterranean and/or North Atlantic.

again, four ± front war ! ! :D

Rensslaer:
...Taking over the Allied possessions of the Caribbean took a while, as I mentioned. I recall I did dive into Belize, too, at one point, securing that for myself. Then where?

logically, Brazil would be your next target. with Belize you could invade Brazil from the north as well as the south with the option to invade the Brazilian coast at one to three, even four, locations...

but, that depends on how much you understood the game by/at that time... :cool:
 

Rensslaer

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Well, my next target was Senegal and Gambia, on the other side of the Atlantic. I remember scouting along the African coast, looking for someplace that was relatively undefended. When I found it, I landed and began to capture an enclave.

While there, I still continued to expnad my presence in the Caribbean. WhisperingDeath guessed Bermuda, and while I'm not sure we made it that far, I know I started working on the Bahamas.

Alas, I hate to bring this AAR to a close -- it's been fun, poking through my memories -- but around this time I ended up stopping the game.

I don't remember exactly how it ended. I do remember I didn't go anywhere after Senegambia.

I believe the United States declared war upon me, and began to quickly overwhelm my defenses. Whether this was prompted by my presence in the Caribbean, off her shores, or if it was a belated response to my Badboy score, I don't know.

What I did realize was that they had the power to destroy me in a way that even the British/French alliance did not. I don't believe USA was part of the Allies at that time -- this was an independent declaration of war.

And I might have continued playing anyway, except that I wanted to start playing another game as Germany, once I'd learned how to play the game.

So... I do hope you all enjoyed this brief AAR! I sure did enjoy writing it.

I very much appreciate those of you who took the time to comment! Please, I invite others to do so later if you see it -- I will check back from time to time and provide feedback.

Rensslaer
 

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Thanks for that romp down memory lane. I had guessed Bermuda because I remembered how useful it was to have small bases for planes and ships. They were also relatively easy to defend as the AI never really had the hang of amphib ops - especially in HOI1. See you on your other fronts!
 

Lord E

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Thank you for bring back memories of good old HoI1. It has been an interesting and nice story to read. I can understand that the end of the game approached quickly once the USA declared war. They are a juggernaut, especially in production and tech so in the long run you didn't really stand a chance when they had decided that you need to be eliminated...
But I think you did very well, and it has been a very nice story, thank you for that :)
 

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Rensslaer: ...I believe the United States declared war upon me, and began to quickly overwhelm my defenses. Whether this was prompted by my presence in the Caribbean, off her shores, or if it was a belated response to my Badboy score, I don't know.

i am inclined to think it was both ! ! :rolleyes:

IIRC, BB is only acted upon when you have a border with "them"...

Rensslaer: ...I don't believe USA was part of the Allies at that time -- this was an independent declaration of war.

if the US "was part of the Allies", then they would have had the same problems as the UK, too many "fronts"... ;)


Lord E: Thank you for bring back memories of good old HoI1. It has been an interesting and nice story to read. .. But I think you did very well, and it has been a very nice story, thank you for that :)

totally agree ! ! :cool:
 

TheExecuter

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Sounds like a great romp!

In my experience, the HOI1 AI concentrates its forces together and goes after the largest concentration of enemy forces of the same type. So, if you concentrate your air-force, the AI will concentrate IT'S airforce to meet yours. If you do not concentrate, the AI WILL concentrate and proceed to attack your forces in order of size until it has eliminated them, or destroyed itself. This applies to ships as well as airplanes and men. It was not unusual in HOI1 to see the entire British navy in one stack by 1940.

You seem to have broken this concentration process by getting into a war with Britain early, before it could concentrate its forces. Once the war with Germany kicked off...Germany's fleet, being larger than yours (and the Italians too I warrant) became the preferred target for the Royal Navy, thus leaving you free to pursue your own adventures.

Perhaps Ascension Island was targeted first because it was the first British territory (cored? maybe not, but it wasn't an ally or commonwealth member) you conquered? Hmm...I haven't fully explored this.

As far as I know, the US AI was coded to basically invoke the Monroe doctrine if people started messing about in the western hemisphere. I'm not entirely sure I remember how it works, since I've mostly been playing in Europe of late.

I really need to do a naval learning AAR. I found out some interesting things in my last multiplayer game as Italy.
 

Elastic Fish

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This was awesome! I've never played HoI1, but a very interesting read, none the less.
 

unmerged(201915)

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Very good aar. Brings back so many memories- I think I first played as France or Sweden. Anyway, I thought your startegy was very brilliant, considering you took on Britian and France as Argentina. In regard to those British ships, doing the honorable and realistic is something I would never have done, and I respect your resolve to keep the game realistic. Anyway, very good aar, and I thank you for writing a HOI one, considering two and three are already out. I would also like to say I enjoy your other aars, paticulary Victoria.
-DesertFox1871
 

Rensslaer

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Whisperingdeath, LordE, Ghostwriter, thank you all for your comments!

Sounds like a great romp!

In my experience, the HOI1 AI concentrates its forces together and goes after the largest concentration of enemy forces of the same type. So, if you concentrate your air-force, the AI will concentrate IT'S airforce to meet yours. If you do not concentrate, the AI WILL concentrate and proceed to attack your forces in order of size until it has eliminated them, or destroyed itself. This applies to ships as well as airplanes and men. It was not unusual in HOI1 to see the entire British navy in one stack by 1940.

You seem to have broken this concentration process by getting into a war with Britain early, before it could concentrate its forces. Once the war with Germany kicked off...Germany's fleet, being larger than yours (and the Italians too I warrant) became the preferred target for the Royal Navy, thus leaving you free to pursue your own adventures.

Perhaps Ascension Island was targeted first because it was the first British territory (cored? maybe not, but it wasn't an ally or commonwealth member) you conquered? Hmm...I haven't fully explored this.

As far as I know, the US AI was coded to basically invoke the Monroe doctrine if people started messing about in the western hemisphere. I'm not entirely sure I remember how it works, since I've mostly been playing in Europe of late.

I really need to do a naval learning AAR. I found out some interesting things in my last multiplayer game as Italy.

Thanks, TheExecuter! Interesting thoughts on AI there. Good to hear from you again!

This was awesome! I've never played HoI1, but a very interesting read, none the less.

Yeah, with HOI 3 the first one really isn't worth playing anymore. But it was fun back when it was the best game out there! Thanks for dropping by!

Very good aar. Brings back so many memories- I think I first played as France or Sweden. Anyway, I thought your startegy was very brilliant, considering you took on Britian and France as Argentina. In regard to those British ships, doing the honorable and realistic is something I would never have done, and I respect your resolve to keep the game realistic. Anyway, very good aar, and I thank you for writing a HOI one, considering two and three are already out. I would also like to say I enjoy your other aars, paticulary Victoria.
-DesertFox1871

Thanks, DesertFox! Yes, memories indeed! Appreciate your interest in my other AARs too!

Actually, you should all know that I'm going to be starting a new HOI 3 (SF) AAR called Kriegsgefahr. Not quite ready yet because I haven't found a version of SF that is working quite right for what I want to do. I may even use a mod -- either HPP (Historical Plausibility Project) or ICE (Iron Cross Edition). Not sure. But it will start relatively soon.

Thanks again for your readership and comments! I was surprised to find so much interest over here in HOI 1 land!

Rensslaer