A little warning, please?

[LokiusMaximus]

Noble and Pretender rebels will break your PU. Peasants shouldn’t.

They didn't. I forget the type it was, but it's the ones that have the flag that looks like a bishop chess piece. My point was that if peasants do break my vassal and they have to lower their taxes, then that is not a major concern for me.

Half the game is learning through errors. There's no information anywhere. I'm not saying there shouldn't be, but you better get used to it.

Especially once you stop playing casually and delve deeper into some finer mechanics. You'll soon find out that your games end up being half "I've never seen this before" and half "I'll write another bug report".

Well yes, I remember that even way back with EUII. Took me forever to even figure out how to start playing the game. But multiple playthroughs in, still learning new things... and still that way in EUIV. I once read a really long thread or wiki (pretty sure it was a thread) on how trade works. I didn't understand much of it so I still just send a merchants to the highest income trade node and usually collect from trade. I am sure it's highly inefficient, but it's not something I've cared enough to want to understand.

OP's situation is particularly nasty and quite justified in save-scumming it. I have no tolerance for "iron man" with that sort of assymetric information presentation and hidden rules. If the game can't respect its own presentation, why should I?

That is exactly the point. This wasn't some minor "taxes were reduced, but will gradually come back." This was losing probably 2000-3000 DIP points. While it did provide a casus belli to restore the union, I am sure that would have also caused a massive AE hit. Not to mention the taxes I would have lost over all that time of re-integrating them after another 50 year waiting period.

Aren't the overview in the Stability and Overextension tab and the banner at the top enough? I can understand it being frustrating if you miss it, but the information is there and I don't find the stability tab to be all that confusing.
I don't think even more big warning signs for stuff we already have warnings and information about are the answer here.

That was the point of my post. There was no banner at the top. The banner only appears (at least by default) if rebels are close to breaking your own nation. I do check the stability tab frequently when I have rebels in my own territories. There is nothing confusing about that. I had just finished a massive war, however, and my priorities were less about the rebels in my PU. Had I known, however, that they could break my PU, they would have been dealt with years prior. Considering we have banners for things like having an advisor slot open or for which countries have disputed claims, it seems logical there would be one for something as harsh as this. And again, it's not like I didn't have the money and resources to end it quicker if I felt it important enough.

 

[Viperswhip]

I am positive I get a pop up when rebels pop in my vassals, I can't specifically remember if I get one when rebels pop in a PU. But I am playing mostly older patches. I always get a pop up, go check the rebel type and the pop size, and either deal with it or leave it for my vassal, but again, I don't remember at the moment if it applied to the PU.

I know it worked in vassals because last night I got a pop up whilst I was fighting a big war in India that my Byzantine vassal got some rebels he couldn't freaking deal with so I had to merc up an army in Italy and ship them over to Byz. I would never have known if not for the pop up.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I am positive I get a pop up when rebels pop in my vassals, I can't specifically remember if I get one when rebels pop in a PU. But I am playing mostly older patches. I always get a pop up, go check the rebel type and the pop size, and either deal with it or leave it for my vassal, but again, I don't remember at the moment if it applied to the PU.

I know it worked in vassals because last night I got a pop up whilst I was fighting a big war in India that my Byzantine vassal got some rebels he couldn't freaking deal with so I had to merc up an army in Italy and ship them over to Byz. I would never have known if not for the pop up.

By default, the game handles event rebels and unrest-accumulation rebel notification in subjects differently.

Also, it's not enough to just say they have rebels in this case. There needs to be a clear reason the player anticipates that they're about to lose 2000 DIP if they don't take action. When you have separatists, you see "independence for X nation". If the outcome is "you lose this subject", that's what the rebel screen should clearly present.

 

[Viperswhip]

By default, the game handles event rebels and unrest-accumulation rebel notification in subjects differently.

Also, it's not enough to just say they have rebels in this case. There needs to be a clear reason the player anticipates that they're about to lose 2000 DIP if they don't take action. When you have separatists, you see "independence for X nation". If the outcome is "you lose this subject", that's what the rebel screen should clearly present.

In the case of my Byz experience from last night, they were religious rebels, so I responded so I didn't have to deal with it later, I take your point. And well, the game is not what you'd call noob friendly. I agree it should be more clear.

So you are saying you get a pop up for one type of rebel but not the other?

That's insanely screwy then, but as I've never lost a vassal or PU to rebels breaking away from me, and I hardly ever pay attention to them manually I must get pop ups. Now, of course I know after all this time what the different rebel types mean, but it is difficult to separate yourself from your experience.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

Well, El Dorado came out one and a half year after release, so the game is going longer without that "cheese".
And I agree with information could be given more clearly, but it is logical to me pretender rebels will break a PU by taking over the junior partner.

I activated pop-ups and autopause for everything, only turning off the most annoying ones I don't actually need. Earlier it was terrible, beacuse every patch reset the messages to default and I had to click all the pop-up icons again. Don't go with default messages.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm saying that rebels spawned by event vs rebels spawned by other sources are handled differently for notification purposes.

Most rebel types clearly indicate the consequences of them forcing. Losing subject doesn't show up that way in the rebel screen.

but it is logical to me pretender rebels will break a PU by taking over the junior partner.

There is a clear issue with the punitive nature vs requirement. Smaller PU could get broken before the overlord can send troops there, but there's no way this would require a separate declaration of war; in essence it would be like a guy in the Netherlands telling Charles V to shove it immediately creating an independent Netherlands with a truce (not war) and major diplomatic ramifications were Charles to say "no, you can't have my title for free".

The issue is that these pretenders can quickly enforce a break with the overlord without actually engaging or defending against the overlord, and sometimes quickly.

Notification should be there either way.

 

[Dominion]

And I agree with information could be given more clearly, but it is logical to me pretender rebels will break a PU by taking over the junior partner.

Doesn't say so though.

And that's a problem. You 'got lucky' in this scenario. Next time you assume something is true because it's logical, the opposite will happen.
The game is more about experience than logic.

Personal pet peeve in this whole Zero-information-scenario are events that don't tell you what they do.

Which is nothing more than a middle finger. "Oh, you're doing a campaign without saves where mistakes will cost you? How about two choices where you don't know either outcome. Are you sweating? Am I making you nervous? Ohhh, I'm such a funny guy."

Other examples include pathing ("It's logical for the game to give me the quickest path" - wrong), auto-deployment ("It's logical for incoming troops to rearrange" - wrong), Rival system ("It's logical for nations of equal strength to be listed" - wrong) and much, much more.

It's logical is not an argument. Next time you say it you'll make a mistake.

Which is why I usually play a full campaign on a new patch before going for a new achievement. There's a ton of stuff that just doesn't make sense and is completely illogical.

And it's not like it's being mentioned in patchnotes either.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

All I wanted to say is, it is logical that pretenders might do something to a Personal Union. So better look it up at Wiki or something than ignoring it. It's just what I did so this speacial problem never affected me. I had a similar problem by losing a daimyo vassal outside Japan by forming Japan. The unlogical thing was I could keep that Daimyo a long time after forming Japan, he just became independent when I reloaded. So I know what you mean and I did not think of this could happen.