A little Present for all you Germany Players

[unmerged(54503)]

I know from reading posts I am not the only one who is meticulous about Leaders and maximizing your experience points to get the highest skill levels, so I am offering a list I just compiled for anyone who wants to copy and save it. In a leaders name if you see an UNDERSCORE below a letter it means it has those two dots above it. I use the Old Guard Purge MOD, so none of the generals I have listed have the OLD GUARD trait.

As for how to purge the Old Guard Leaders it is very easy.

Go to this link.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219484


Keep in mind that a Major General gains experience points much faster than a Lieutenant General, so don't promote them until you get their skill way up there. What I tend to do is promote a few Logistical Generals, or ones who have no trait that start with a high skill to the rank of Field Marshall, or General until my elite Generals get their skill levels high enough to promote them. Although if you read the tests that were done to determine experience point gain speed that are in the links at the bottom of this post there is evidence that a skill 4 Lt General gains experience a little faster than a skill 4 Major General.


THE ELITE PANZER GENERALS w/Multiple Traits / Their Maximum Skill Level is listed in parentheses to the right of their names.

1) Guderian (9)
2) von Manstein (9)
3) Model (9)
4) Hausser (9)
5) Rommel (9)
6) von Kleist (9)
7) von Arnim (9)
8) Geyer von Schweppenburg (8)
9) von Randow (8)
10) Hoth (7)

The Rest of the Best Panzer Generals w/Single Trait / (Maximum Skill Level)

11) Steiner (8)
12) Dietrich (8)
13) Henrici (8)
14) von Mackenson (7)
15) Hopner (7)
16) Schmidt R. (7)
17) Stumme (7)
18) von Vietinghoff-Scheel (7)
19) von Schell (7)
20) Lemelson (7)
21) Neumann-Silkow (7)
22) Cruwell (7)
23) Kuntzen (7)
24) Senger und Etterlin (7)

P.S. If a letter has an underline it means it has the two dots on top of it.


This next list is the OFFENSIVE TRAIT GENERALS

There are x6 Offensive Skill Generals with more than one Trait that qualify as Elite Generals although some may be just the Logistical Trait.

Side Note: Some of the Elite Panzer Generals also have Offensive as a Trait.

ELITE MULTIPLE TRAIT OFFENSIVE GENERALS

1) von Kluge (9)
2) Rundstadt (8)
3) von Leeb (8)
4) von Hanneken (6)
5) von Kortzfleisch (6)
6) Kaul (6)

Next are all those OFFENSIVE TRAIT Generals with maximum skill levels of 9, 8, and 7 with just the Offensive Trait.

7) von Bock (9)
8) von Brauchitsch (9)
9) von Kuchler (9)
10) von Witzleben (9)
11) Blaskivitz (9)
12) von Both (9)

13) List (8)
14) von Riechenau (8) (I had an event in January 1942 where this guy died in an accident.)
15) Halder (8)
16) de Angelis (8)
17) Falkenhorst (8)

18) Bramer (7)
19) Hilpert (7)
20) Eicke (7)
21) von der Chevallerie K. (7)
22) von Kressenstein (7)
23) von Schobert (7)
24) Ruoff (7)
25) Volkman (7)
26) Felber (7)
27) Dippold (7)
28) Gallenkamp (7)
29) Veith (7)

On a side note all the rest with an Offensive trait have either a 5, or a 6. None have anything lower as a maximum skill level.


Here is the List of DEFENSIVE TRAIT GENERALS

The first 4 have two Traits The second trait is listed by each general.

1) Paulus (8) (Winter)
2) Heinrici (8) (Logistics)
3) Sponheimer (7) Fortress
4) Brand (6) (Fortress)

These 3 are the best of the single TRAIT Defensive Generals with maximum skill of 7.

5) Keiner (7)
6) Geib (7)
7) Grun (7)

There are roughly 14 others DEFENSIVE Generals and they all have either a 5, or a 6 maximum skill.


There is a limited number of WINTER TRAIT Generals , so I will list them all.

It should be noted that some of the Elite Panzer, Offensive, and Commando Generals with multiple traits may have a Winter Trait.


WINTER TRAIT GENERALS

There are two with muti TRAITS.

1) Busch (8) (Winter, Logistics)
2) Hell (6) (Winter, Fortress)

These 4 have only the WINTER TRAIT

3) von Tippelskirch (7)
4) Brennecke (6)
5) Stempel (6)
6) von Forster (5)


Here are your German Commando Generals.

COMMANDO Multiple Trait Generals

1) Dietl (9) (Winter)
2) Student (8) (Defensive)
3) Schorner (8) (Defensive, Logistics)

Single Trait Commando Generals

4) Bohm (7)
5) Detmering (7)
6) Konrad (6)
7) Alpers (6)
8) Brenner (6)
9) Lanz (6)
10) von Hunnersdorff (6)
11) Clossner (6)
12) Kubler (5)


Now for the best AIR GENERALS

I am also listing their secondary trait if they have one.

FIGHTER Generals with the SUPERIOR TACTICIAN TRAIT.

1) Richthofen (9) (Carpet)
2) Milch (8) (Spotter)
3) von Greim (8)
4) Lorzer (8)
5) Keller (7) (Tank Destroyer)
6) Udet (7) (Tank Destroyer) (I had an event in July 1942 where this guy died from suicide.)

7) Klepke (6)
8) Mahnke (6)
9) Felmy (7)
10) Fiebig (7)

TACTICAL BOMBER Generals with the TANK DESTROYER TRAIT

1) Sperrle (9) (Carpet)
2) Kesselring (9)
3) Dorstling (8)
4) Grauert (7)
5) Weise (7)
6) Keller (7) (Superior Tactician)
7) Udet (7) (Superior Tactician) (I had an event in July 1942 where this guy died from suicide.)

NAVAL BOMBER Generals with the FLEET DESTROYER TRAIT

1) Zander (7)
2) Stumpff (6)
3) Siberg (6)
4) Ritter (6)
5) Geisler (6)
6) Coeler (6)
7) Bruch (6)

NIGHT FLYER Generals with the NIGHT FLYER TRAIT

1) Kammhuber (8)
2) Heilingbrunner (7)
3) Kuhl (6)
4) Bodenschatz (6)


All this information would be useless if you did not know how to use it effectively, so here you go.

QUOTE=P3D;
I decided to use some scientific method to discover the hidden parameters behind the experience avarded to land leaders in combat. To collect experimental data , I started from the Fall Grün scenario. First, edited the INF characteristics to have SA/HA of 1, and created a savegame where I deleted all non-infantry units from both forces, put all the GER units in one province and chopped the force up to one-division corps. Then I edited the savegame to have the leaders the skills I want to look at, like MaxSkill from 0 to 9, skill from 0 to 9, and various rank. After analyzing the data, I even get some equations.

Note there might be errors in the figures, and some discrepancies might arise from the rounding and the rounding errors.

My observations are:

1) EXP gain depends on the intensity of combat, leaders with the same characteristics can gain different amount of EXP in paralell combats.
2) EXP is not affected by traits save the good Old Guard
3) The promotion dates or the ideal rank in the leaderfiles also have no effect
4) The only parameters effecting the rate of EXP growth are rank, skill and max skill level.
P.S. The manual (page 61) is wrong about the affects of ideal rank. Alas another game feature that has not been implemented.

All the Math and details to back it up are at this link.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187098

P.S. The manual (page 61) is wrong about the affects of ideal rank. Alas another game feature that has not been implemented.


Points the autopromote-A.I. considers when selecting a candidate (in order of priority):

1. Is there a leader-slot available (according to army-size & leader_ratio) ?
2. Only pick a leader with a rank that is one level below the position that needs to be filled
3. Has any leader reached or passed his historical year for this promotion ? The year itself doesn't matter, only whether it's yes or no. Candidates that have passed are preferred
4. Does the leader have an active command ? If yes then he gets preferential treatment. Even if an eligible higher-skilled leader is in the pool.
5. Which is the leader with the highest skill ? Pick him.
6. If there are two leaders which are both passed their historical year, both have an active command and both have the same skill then there is some other factor involved which I can't put my finger on. It's not experience, it's not the number of traits. Might be the Leader-number ( ).
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208081

 

[unmerged(93625)]

Tris, I've played as Germany quite a few times & it would be good to have a Air/Land/Naval list.

A quick question thought how significant in battle terms is a General with 6 exp against a General with say 3? Does it reallly make a difference as I am not sure?

 

[coreymas]

Tris consider posting your reference information here

http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/index.php/Reference_Material

 

[unmerged(54503)]

Tris, I've played as Germany quite a few times & it would be good to have a Air/Land/Naval list.

A quick question thought how significant in battle terms is a General with 6 exp against a General with say 3? Does it reallly make a difference as I am not sure?

I believe that each skill point adds a 2% bonus. Perhaps someone can verify this. In addition I believe the trait adds the equivalent of 2 skill levels when in a situation where you get the bonus.

I had to do this as I am getting ready to attack Poland and I had to assign my leaders.

 

[Pro]

I believe that each skill point adds a 2% bonus. Perhaps someone can verify this. In addition I believe the trait adds the equivalent of 2 skill levels when in a situation where you get the bonus.

I had to do this as I am getting ready to attack Poland and I had to assign my leaders.

2% bonus for air and naval, 5% for land per skill point. You're correct about traits as far as I know

 

[unmerged(133924)]

Yes, 5% bonus for land commanders is my understanding too.

I don't think it's off-topic to mention that while I continue to make use of the BEST leaders from the start, I've recently noticed that there are a number of lower skill level leaders ("2", especially with Germany) with multiple skills that I haven't been using. (With so many great leaders to commission from the top of the list, is it any wonder that it took me so long to scroll down any farther? Anyone else find themselves overlooking the others?) I've started making use of them -- spreading out my hard divisions (ARM/PZR and MOT then eventually MEC) so that I can get those leaders up to the higher levels. There's something very satisfying about using PZR LDRs with (for example) LOG WIZ traits... instead of just going with the (initially) higher skilled PZR LDRS alone.

There's a historical interest here too: I recently read up on Raus, von Sponeck, and von Randow, for example, and thought I should be making better use of them in the game. By contrast, reading up on UK armor commanders (such as Ritchie and Norrie) has left me wondering about their impressive stats in the game.

But I suppose this issue is mainly focused on GERM and USSR, given their huge pools of leaders.

 

[unmerged(133924)]

BTW, thanks to you, Tris, for the helpful list(s).

(And just noticed Senger und Etterlin above: another historically interesting PZR LDR that I now am completely dedicated to in my games. He played an interesting role in the Cassino campaign, as many of you probably already know, being instrumental in getting many of the artistic and historical treasures of the Monte Cassino Abby out of harm's way.)

 

[Krediax]

db --> leaders --> german

you see':
- a list of all of the leaders with there ideal rank (Mj. General, Lt. General, general and Fieldmarshal. 1-->4)
- there max rank
- there starting skill

 

[unmerged(54503)]

db --> leaders --> german

you see':
- a list of all of the leaders with there ideal rank (Mj. General, Lt. General, general and Fieldmarshal. 1-->4)
- there max rank
- there starting skill

Actually ideal rank ranges from 0 to 3 and Zero indicates the ideal rank of Field Marshall if I am not mistaken.

 

[Krediax]

ohw oke my bad

 

[Pugmak]

Heh. Stoopid me. I thought 5 was the max skill level any officer could achieve.

Edited to add:

Bookmarked! Because I obviously didn't have a clue before reading this.

 

[Shootist]

This list is the OFFENSIVE TRAIT GENERALS

There are only x3 Offensive Skill Generals with Multiple Traits that qualify as Elite Generals.

1) von Kluge (9)
2) Rundstadt (8)
3) von Leeb (8)

Next are all those with a maximum skill levels of 9, 8, and 7 with just the Offensive Trait.

4) von Bock (9)
5) von Brauchitsch (9)
6) von Kuchler (9)
7) von Witzleben (9)
8) Blaskivitz (9)
9) von Both (9)

10) List (8)
11) von Riechenau (8)
12) Halder (8)
13) de Angelis (8)
14) Falkenhorst (8)

15) Bramer (7)
16) Hilpert (7)
17) Eicke (7)
18) von der Chevallerie K. (7)
19) von Kressenstein (7)
20) von Schobert (7)
21) Ruoff (7)
22) Volkman (7)
23) Felber (7)
24) Dippold (7)
25) Gallenkamp (7)
26) Veith (7)

On a side note all the rest with an Offensive trait have either a 5, or a 6. None have anything lower as a maximum skill level.

Wo ist Feldmarschall Erwin Rommel?

 

[unmerged(49004)]

Good thread here tris

 

[coreymas]

Actually ideal rank ranges from 0 to 3 and Zero indicates the ideal rank of Field Marshall if I am not mistaken.

Correct

 

[coreymas]

Tris,

Edit your first post to include all of your tables.... easier to read that way.

 

[unmerged(54503)]

Wo ist Feldmarschall Erwin Rommel?

He is in the first list with the Elite Panzer generals who have multiple traits.

 

[unmerged(54503)]

Here is the List of DEFENSIVE GENERALS

The first 4 have two Traits The second trait is listed by each general.

1) Paulus (8) Winter
2) Heinrici (8) (Logistics)
3) Sponheimer (7) Fortress
4) Brand (6) Fortress

These 3 are the best of the single TRAIT Defensive Generals with maximum skill of 7.

5) Keiner (7)
6) Geib (7)
7) Grun (7)

There are roughly 14 others DEFENSIVE Generals and they all have either a 5, or a 6 maximum skill.

There is a limited number of WINTER TRAIT Generals , so I will list them all. It should be noted that some of the Elite Panzer and Offensive Generals with multiple traits also have a Winter Trait.

WINTER TRAIT GENERALS The second trait is listed next to the two generals that have it.

Busch (8) Logistics
Hell (6) Fortress

von Tippelskirch (7)
Brennecke (6)
Stempel (6)
von Forster (5)

 

[Nilmerf]

Starting skill level is an important factor as well, in which case I would say Dietrich and Steiner are better than von Randow for example.

Here's my Barbarossa panzer armies:

Heeresgruppe Sud

General von Manstein
-Lt. Gen Rendulic, Lt. Gen Hoth
General von Kleist
-Lt. Gen von Mackensen, Lt. Gen von Hubicki

Heeresgruppe Mitte

General Guderian
-Lt. Gen von Schweppenberg, Lt. Gen Hoepner
General Rommel
-Lt. Gen von Arnim, Lt. Gen Nehring

Heeresgruppe Nord

General Model
-Lt. Gen Wunnenberg, Lt. Gen Keppler
General Hausser
-Lt. Gen Dietrich, Lt. Gen Steiner

 

[unmerged(54503)]

Starting skill level is an important factor as well, in which case I would say Dietrich and Steiner are better than von Randow for example.

Here's my Barbarossa panzer armies:

Heeresgruppe Sud

General von Mainstein
-Lt. Gen Rendulic, Lt. Gen Hoth
General von Kleist
-Lt. Gen von Mackensen, Lt. Gen Henrici

Heeresgruppe Mitte

General Guderian
-Lt. Gen von Schweppenberg, Lt. Gen Hoepner
General Rommel
-Lt. Gen von Arnim, Lt. Gen Nehring

Heeresgruppe Nord

General Model
-Lt. Gen Wunnenberg, Lt. Gen Keppler
General Hausser
-Lt. Gen Dietrich, Lt. Gen Steiner

I give each division a single general instead of 3 per General until later in the game when they are all skilled out with aquired Traits.

What matters more than starting skill is the Ideal rank as that determines how fast the Leader gains experience.

As a for instance most people might overlook Witzleben, but his ideal rank is a Field Marshall.

In my game I used the Old Guard Purge MOD Event. It deleted 90 generals and with them all the Field Marshalls.

I then had Rundstadt auto promoted to Field Marshall and and von Kluge promoted to General.

I had to use an untraited skill 4 Lt General to make a Field Marshall with a skill 2 as a stop gap.

 

[Nilmerf]

I give each division a single general instead of 3 per General until later in the game when they are all skilled out with aquired Traits.

What matters more than starting skill is the Ideal rank as that determines how fast the Leader gains experience.

As a for instance most people might overlook Witzleben, but his ideal rank is a Field Marshall.

In my game I used the Old Guard Purge MOD Event. It deleted 90 generals and with them all the Field Marshalls.

I then had Rundstadt auto promoted to Field Marshall and and von Kluge promoted to General.

I had to use an untraited skill 4 Lt General to make a Field Marshall with a skill 2 as a stop gap.

I guess it depends on how you play. I don't use auto-promote, and do all of my upgrading and army formatting in preparation for Barbarossa.. so starting skill level is more important. I agree with the old guard purge though, in my case to get rid of the clutter.