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Abnwtwtud

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No, this isn't the thread I'm going to use to count how many elves I brutally slaughter in the name of elf-slaughter. Instead, I'd like to open up a conversation that's not about gender or highly controversial topics. I'd just like to talk about what a kill counter would or would not add to Runemaster. I'll preface all following statements by stating that I have not seen anywhere that there is decisively no plans for a kill counter already. Also, I do not know how much actual work or money it would cost Paradox to add a kill counter if they have not. That said, I'd like to make an argument for why a kill counter adds value to the game.

Ideally a kill counter could come in one of three forms:

1. A counter that measures only what your primary character has killed. This seems like it would be the easiest to implement, as logically, some mechanic will be tracking this anyway to allow for leveling.

2. A counter that measures what your army has killed. This seems like it would be the second easiest to implement, giving us some impression on how well the army has been performing as a whole.

3. A counter that measures what each individual unit has killed. Likely the hardest, as it would require more tracking I assume.


Now I'd be happy with any of the three, but today I'm specifically arguing for the third option. Two examples of games where I believe this has been done right are XCOM and StarCraft. In each game, the number of kills by an individual unit are readily available, giving you information about that particular unit. More importantly, it helps build the specific personality of that unit in your mind, and helps a player grow attached to that unit. For example, I'll be a lot more interested in my Heavy specialist with 5 kills than I am from Generic Rookie #5 with 0 kills. Sure that changes with time, but that Heavy will hold a special place until he dies. Similarly, in the first StarCraft, I'd see this Marine with about 30 kills towards the end of a mission, having defended the base so long or been on other offensive campaigns, and I'm like, "I like you soldier."

The point is that a kill counter provides a player with additional attachment to otherwise bland units. It can be used for practical measurements like the Kill/Death ratio of your army or just to see which units have turned out to be more effective. In my opinion, however, it helps build immersion and attachment to the unit, and to the game as a whole. Please Paradox, if you can't add a counter, at least tell me why not.

PS: Also, if you could make it specifically count elf kills, I'll appreciate it. I'd also be ok with an elf ear collection.
 

V1ribus

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A kill counter would be nice. So would being able to use various bits of a corpse in meal making and poison producing.

PS: Also, if you could make it specifically count elf kills, I'll appreciate it. I'd also be ok with an elf ear collection.
Do you have a troubling memory involving elves from your childhood, is that what has brought this concentrated hate?
 

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Eh, any of those 3 is trivially easy to track from a programming standpoint, the only question is whether to waste UI space displaying this info.

BTW, when I play XCOM, the reason I care more about my about my Heavy than Generic Rookie #5 is that my Heavy has the very useful Hail of Bullets ability. It has nothing to do with memories of how many Thin Men, Sectoids, etc. he has killed. Even if he takes down a Sectopod it's unlikely that I'll remember and care about that specifically the next day.
 

aruon

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Eh, any of those 3 is trivially easy to track from a programming standpoint, the only question is whether to waste UI space displaying this info.

BTW, when I play XCOM, the reason I care more about my about my Heavy than Generic Rookie #5 is that my Heavy has the very useful Hail of Bullets ability. It has nothing to do with memories of how many Thin Men, Sectoids, etc. he has killed. Even if he takes down a Sectopod it's unlikely that I'll remember and care about that specifically the next day.
1: because why not? comparisons, KDR, effectiveness.

2: ...U wot m8t?
 

Abnwtwtud

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If we want to look at practical reasons for implementing a kill counter in the UI, we can do that. Here's a quick couple of ways a player could use a counter outside of my treasured immersion:

1. Kill-Death Ratios, using these to determine the overall effectiveness of a certain class or organization of your army. If you're losing a lot of people and killing very few, this would be a good indicator to determine whether to change the way you're doing business.

2. Forum contests: Say, hypothetically, someone on the Paradox forums suggested a contest to see how many elfs could be killed by your character. Using the kill counter, people could easily participate in this contest without having to labor themselves by taking notes. This would help quickly build a strong support community for the Runemaster game, helping people compare their own progress to others.



Elf-shot, never forgive, never forget.
 

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That whole routine you're doing about killing elves and the counter for it has become more tiring than funny.

(don't hate on the messenger)
 

Abnwtwtud

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That whole routine you're doing about killing elves and the counter for it has become more tiring than funny.

(don't hate on the messenger)
I want a kill counter regardless of my hatred for elves, even if it wasn't a game involving killing elves, like the two I mention, I still think a kill counter is a good idea and I hope it's implemented.

Also, it's not a routine, I genuinely hate all elves and believe that they should be rendered extinct.
 
Last edited:

aruon

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Also, it's not a routine, I genuinely hate all elves and believe that they should be rendered extinct.
i feel the same way about humans. damn humans are everywhere! hold me my fellow sentient being-hating friend!
 

Abnwtwtud

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i feel the same way about humans. damn humans are everywhere! hold me my fellow sentient being-hating friend!
Well, obviously, but if you go around collecting human ears people get a bit nervous and there's inquiries and investigations.
 

aruon

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Well, obviously, but if you go around collecting human ears people get a bit nervous and there's inquiries and investigations.
i'll just say they were from bandits. i'm sure people will understand.:rofl:

nothing like a lucky ear to keep you company.
 

aruon

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I'm still amused. Please, Abnwtwtud, never stop hating elves in public.
and humans too! don't forget humans!
 

V1ribus

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and humans too! don't forget humans!
Humans are interesting creatures though; full of quirky hatred for other species..
 

Abnwtwtud

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Really if you take a look at most games, Kill Counters of any kind come somewhat standard in my opinion. Sure, sometimes it's buried beneath other options or menus, but it's still there. Even Hearts of Iron 2 eventually had a kill counter mechanic of sorts. They're just such an integral part of a roleplaying and even strategic experience, I truly hope that the people at gamescom just didn't see them, and they are already in there.
 

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Its becoming pretty standard in RPGs to have some sort of stats page with lots of mostly useless but interesting info. Skyrim had 1, both Dragon Ages did, I'd be surprised if Runemaster didn't
 

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I'm still amused. Please, Abnwtwtud, never stop hating elves in public.
He's clearly aiming for a cameo as "Ab Elfhater" who gives a quest to collect elf ears.

But on topic, I think a kill counter of some point would be potentially interesting. It would be nice when making recruiting decisions to see "Alice's archers have been extremely deadly, but Bob's unit has been slacking off. I know which one I'll disband when I have to make room for a dragon in my roster."
 

Hericage

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We've discussed mechanics involving a kill counter quite a lot actually. The problem being that we've never figured out exactly what we want to do with one ( we want to do something more than just a number ).
I'm of the same mind as Abnwtwtud in that a unit with 10 kills is more precious to me than a unit with 0, and I think the rest of the team agrees with this a s well.
I would love to see per-unit tracking and something like an achievement system for units in this game. Let's hope I can convince the rest of the team that this is a good idea! :)
 

Abnwtwtud

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We've discussed mechanics involving a kill counter quite a lot actually. The problem being that we've never figured out exactly what we want to do with one ( we want to do something more than just a number ).
I'm of the same mind as Abnwtwtud in that a unit with 10 kills is more precious to me than a unit with 0, and I think the rest of the team agrees with this a s well.
I would love to see per-unit tracking and something like an achievement system for units in this game. Let's hope I can convince the rest of the team that this is a good idea! :)
Like an achievement system for individual units? That's actually pretty awesome right there. I hope you get that.
 

balmung60

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Jan 20, 2013
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As a related thing, some games (Super Robot Wars springs to mind, but I'm sure other games do, to) give units a bonus for killing a certain number of enemies (this is in addition to the standard EXP and skills normally gained), and while its "ace bonuses" are fixed for each unit, perhaps a more dynamic system could be implemented (say, a unit who has killed ten dwarves gets a skill that makes him better at offing more dwarves).
 
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