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Olle8

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This was the only game currently developing i was really interested in, its all very sad.
 

Colonel Bogey

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Where does the red and black (vertical striped) flag hail from? I can only find reference to County Down in Ireland. It certainly isn't Anarcho-Communist though, so why the rebel connotation?
 

unmerged(409578)

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It comes from Angola. (?
 

Colonel Bogey

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It comes from Angola. (?

That is horizontal, not vertical.

450px-Flag_of_Angola.svg.png

edit: removed external link.
____________________________________________________

Actually it could be a flag flipped 90 degrees as the anarcho-communist one certainly is and the dimensions suggest so.
 
Last edited:

RolandRahn

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This is an absolute disaster. I was surprised about this ambitious project (can't imagine how to get the cold war into a HOI-like computer game) and I was delighted over all the news.
Ships&weapons that can be designed, the ability to win/lose a game without a shooting war....all gone.

Yeah, HOI4 will be nice.
Yeah, I look forward to Rajas of India.

And I was willed to pay $100 as soon as the beta would have been open.

And I am surprised....1812 posts in the thread within a few days. There is obviously a massive interest by the community in such a game. IO find it difficult to believe that cancelling it was a wise decision.
 

grzesiek85

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Where does the red and black (vertical striped) flag hail from? I can only find reference to County Down in Ireland. It certainly isn't Anarcho-Communist though, so why the rebel connotation?

Its Ukrainian nationalist organization UPA flag. They murdered a loot of peoples.
 

stephen_tome

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This is not good, how can they be trusted to do what they say they are going to do in the future. For that matter, how do we know that they will release any future games or continue to provide support, patches, bug-fixes to their games. The company's reputation has been tarnished.
 

whosthebestcop

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Think about a kickstarter campaign for a CW game, with an engine built from scratch that is totally your, so that nobody else (apart donors) will put his mouth into your work schedule.

You win and we'll be satisfied :)

Take a look at Kingdom Come: Deliverance, they have done a good kickstarter campaign and have raised way more than what they expected, if they were able to do that why can't you?

You realize that the team making Kingdom Come has much experience on such games as Mafia, Mafia 2, ArmA, Operation Flashpoint, Crysis 3, and Forza Horizon. Not to mention there P&P experience. Or they have leased an engine (CryEngine) that their coders already have coded games in.

Not to mention the fact they have an independent Angel investor who already has donated millions of dollars. They used the kickstarter just to show him there was interest in the game. That investor then was going to fund the rest of the game if it was a kickstarter success.

So using Kingdom Come: Deliverance as an example doesn't have any correlation to BL-Logic and EvW.

All of the indie games that get millions of dollars from backers on kickstarter are either legends in the gaming world, developers with a track record that dont want a publisher, or for some kind of long awaited sequel.

Kickstarter has been a tool for known developers to self publish medium to large games. And for unknown indie developers to produce tiny to medium sized games. But it is usually a huge difference in asking price. Paper Sorcerers, he was a first time game developer, not in the gaming industry. He asked for only $5K and got around $13. He later got on steam. Game sells for $5 and has received some rave reviews.

Compared to say Wasteland 2 that got around $3 Million just from kickstarter and I forget how much in Paypal but I believe it was another couple million.

The other thing to remember is that many times a developer leases the engine. Meaning for the right to use the engine in any game they develop regardless of publisher. In this case the engine is part of the publishing deal. That is why BL-Logic can't self publish or take the game to another publisher. They were contracted directly from the publisher PI and given the engine to use in their game. No game, no engine. They didn't buy the rights to the engine to use any game they made.
 

soda7777777

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We can not comment actual numbers due to legal reasons on any contract with another company, but they got paid in a professional way, and I'd had happily signed that contract as a developer with a small team, any day of the week.

You'd be wide to listen to FOARP and Tomn_Peng in this thread, as they seem to understand the business of game-development.

And I'm still sad.. I was one of the people at Paradox that want to keep the project going for a long time even after it didn't make financial sense.. It had so much promise and I like working with Gellert and Lennart alot. I wish we can work together again soon.

At PDS we did the original vision, helped with coding advice, did all of the QA until alpha, did the graphical style and some more.

I've felt like shit since I got informed about the decision this week, and then being blamed and getting hate for it here just breaks my heart. However, I feel even more sorry for Lennart, Gellert and their team, who worked so hard on this for a long time.. Its just devastating when something you work on gets cancelled.

Nooo! Not a sad Johan! Look what you guys have done, you've made Johan sadder than he already was.
 

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Man that's sad.
What makes it worse is that they were probably justified in shutting down the game. In a sad time like this I really want to be able to be angry at someone or something. This type of news is just hardest to take when you have nothing to justifiably point at and blame.
R.I.P. East vs. West, perhaps one day we will see a good Cold War game
 

Jalex

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This does not go against what I have been saying all along. That some people got paid (you can see many posts behind that I mentioned these two: Gellert and Lennart). What we were arguing here is the amount of money they got and the real size and productivity regime of the team. I was insisting all along that many of the guys were not full-time employees, but worked out of modding passion. I repeat: what happened in the past is not important anymore, what is important is to find some solution to allow this game see the light of day in some form in the future. This is not Magna Mundi. We could live without Magna Mundi as many of its ideas got in the much better EU4 anyway. EvW was unique because of the era and the gazillion tweaks implemented to improve the HOI3 engine. I, myself, even contributed in the We Are The World Contest and won. So many persons involved, this is not single Ubik's fantasy.

Anyway, end of story from me. I hope Fredrik reads now and then these lines and reconsiders. After all, this company had made a name of listening to its players-customers. It would be great if this trend continued. Nighty night! ;)

You were literally just told that East vs West incurred a financial cost for Paradox, and that it had reached the point of being too much for a profitable game.

You still reject the fact that BL-Logic actually consumed resources when trying to create a product.

(Not trying to slam anyone involved in the project itself, if it comes off that way.)

On the note of what happened here, I can't really find it in myself to be angry at anyone. What I didn't like though, was the repeated assertions that everything was fine for an incredibly long time, all while new info dried up, delays were announced and threads were locked left, right and centre. Even if the EvW had gone live, the whole experience had definitely soured me. I probably would have purchased the game eventually, but waited until there was a sale and any flaws had been ironed out.
 

superZAKTAN

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So sad....Only thing I was looking foward to :(
 

TheChronoMaster

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Johan is not the head of the studio, nor did he cancel East vs West. In fact, Johan has nothing to do with the Business/Publisher side of Paradox.

But then, you're totally unreasonable, so...

EDIT: This was at Igor7, whose post has since been deleted. He accused Johan of being a liar, with multiple exclamation points and allcaps, calling him the one who 'personally cancelled East vs West' and asked to be banned, saying he was finished with Paradox forever. Here's hoping he got his wish, since he was the type to fly off the handle without any reason, and without doing any actual reading.


...Why is it he could make it into the beta when I couldn't, again? :p
 

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This is not entirely accurate. In fact I'll call it what it is.....a lie. Johann was the one who cancelled the project. For him to post this, a lie, to take the heat off possibly, is the worst form of hypocrisy. Go ahead and ban me PI, I'm finished with you. I don't do business with people like you.

Ah I see you decided to take away some of the allcaps and exclamation points, but still don't actually bother reading, comprehending, or distinguishing between separate people. Also, you're incapable of understanding that Paradox is both a Publisher and a Developer, and the two are separately managed. Good to know.

Protip: Johan is not Fredrick Wester [CEO of Paradox, and first poster in this thread]. Johan is a developer and game designer. He's the design lead on EUIV, did work on CK2, and from what he said, did support work on EvW. In fact, if he's to be believed, he actually championed continuing development on EvW, even once numbers stopped being viable.


So good job attacking an innocent, igor! May you continue to post productively and reasonably, for the short time before your (asked for and deserved) ban.
 

Carbon

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I've felt like shit since I got informed about the decision this week, and then being blamed and getting hate for it here just breaks my heart. However, I feel even more sorry for Lennart, Gellert and their team, who worked so hard on this for a long time.. Its just devastating when something you work on gets cancelled.

Yeah it never made sense for anyone to blame you in particular Johan, especially since (I'm guessing) you didn't even have to do with this decision. I suppose it's because you've come to be the image of Paradox itself, in a way.
 

TheChronoMaster

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Yeah it never made sense for anyone to blame you in particular Johan, especially since (I'm guessing) you didn't even have to do with this decision. I suppose it's because you've come to be the image of Paradox itself, in a way.

Oh don't worry, it makes perfect sense to reasonable and intelligent people like igor7, who just sent me a PM calling me an asshole for defending "the liar Johann' (You'd think he'd at least bother to make sure he was typing the guy's name correctly, but eh.)
 

TheChronoMaster

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But you, at the end of the day, really don't have any knowledge about what you're talking about. Not really. All you can do is speculate. Wrongly.


Hahaha, deleted all three prior posts? That's cool, I can keep quoting them for the record. I find your ability to dismiss simple logic and reality itself quite impressive!

It's sad you're 32 years older than me, if your profile is to be believed. I'm serious, I am genuinely sad.
 

Castellon

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Perhaps some of you missed my other post.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...teractive!&p=17031248&viewfull=1#post17031248

If you have not already done so read it.
I am now forced to add some things on the end of it.

No Nazi stuff.
Idle speculation of things you know nothing about and we cannot talk about, that is just trolling.

In an effort to save this thread for people to have their say, I must resort to upping the ante.
I will therefore be handing out bans and not just infractions for major breaches of rules now.
Consider this fair warning to consider if you really want to say what you are posting.
 

przy

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It's too bad, was looking forward to this. On a positive note, maybe this speeds up the development of HOI IV? Really looking forward to it's release.
 
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