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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Tomn_Peng

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It is simple business

Games are repeatedly cut and cancelled at various stages of completion in the gaming industry. This happens EXTREMELY regularly. Paradox is very, very far from being the first publisher to do so. If, then, you think the business is as clear-cut and simple as you believe it is, could you show me, let's say, three examples of games for which this simple business was applied? If you can't, why do you suppose that is?
 

aruon

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Mostly referring to the nationalist drivel that this subforum had, there was almost always at least one thread closed on the front page. Usually two.

ah. understandable. though maybe not the perfect comparison, considering the game hadn't been released yet, so there's naturally a much higher gravitation towards debate over active use of known code, and people on the forum itself. higher volume = higher everything. though I have heard that the CK2 forums are rather infamous in the PI forum community for its... vulgarity.:rofl:
 

aruon

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They most certainly coul, if they chose to, stop funding the game and allow it to move forward as crowd funding and continue to License the engine to Bl as well as a royalty to the game. Therefore PI can cut their loss and reduce risk, with only an upside.
From a marketing perspective, the game would be totally indepemdent with no pararox involvement. Leave it up entirely to Bl.
If BL fails to produce, then it is on BL.
Business is about following the money. I can certainly understand PI wanting to stop funding ajd reducd the risk. The option as set forth above is only a win-win for PI.
The onus is then on BL alone.
With regard to and PDS support, BL would have to pay PDS for any technical suport via funds from the crowsld fu.ding stream.
If the game failes to generate enough revenue via crowd funding then the game stops. PDS again looses nothing.
It is simple business

as interesting as it would be to see, I don't think PI would try crowdfunding, it would seem kinda cheap of them considering that they are over a decade+ old company that's is well established in its chosen field... by which I mean it coined the name of the genre that it practically holds a monopoly over.
 

soda7777777

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ah. understandable. though maybe not the perfect comparison, considering the game hadn't been released yet, so there's naturally a much higher gravitation towards debate over active use of known code, and people on the forum itself. higher volume = higher everything. though I have heard that the CK2 forums are rather infamous in the PI forum community for its... vulgarity.:rofl:

Lots of newcomers is the reason for it. Yes, CK2 forum is very vulgar and full of angry people. Though there are more normal people in it than crazies.
 

Fryslan0109

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Not the best news, but it did have a certain air of inevitability about it...
 

unmerged(409578)

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I don't think it's an exaggeration to say this forum has been the angriest I've seen on Paradox. The number of *interventions* from *people whose actions cannot be commented on* has been way more than on any other forum.

This is actually one of the things I despise about pdox forums. I do not hate them all, but one in particular who seems to live from this.
 

Carbon

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Why are you defending *him* then? That's some third grade logic there; consumer rights? C'mon. Nobody is owed anything here, nobody spent money here (from what I understand). It's almost as crazy as blaming, say Bungie, for not making a Halo Grand Strategy game. All anyone has here, in legal terms, is hurt feelings. Sadly, those don't go far in the court of law. Promises? There is a quote in the world of journalism that has a parallel here: Don't trust anyone who is not on the record. When you're talking about games that aren't even released, it should read, Don't trust any publisher until you have a product in your hands.

I'm sorry if I'm being "rude, insulting or inflammatory," but PI should bear no responsibility for this. From what PI has said, it was the developers that were writing really bad code. You people (you all) would be the loudest complainers if EvW would come out and it would be a buggy mess at best and not running on your computer at worst, right? Especially if you dropped 40-60 dollars for a game on Day 1.

Don't get me wrong, I really really really wanted to play EvW, and I'm really sad a bout it, but let's be rational folks. I'm happy PI did what they did. They are trying to build a legacy of excellence, and despite what many think, a legacy which they didn't really always have (some would argue up until CK2, me not being one of them). PI is one of the fastest growing VG companies, which is a surprising feat given that they are primarily PC oriented. Any company brave enough to do what they are doing gets a thumbs up from me.

No you missed the point. I'm not defending anyone here, nor am I saying anyone who thinks PI did the right thing is rude and inflammatory. I said that specific user was a troll, you can look at his post history for evidence; I don't care which side of the "debate" he's on, he's insulting other users in a spiteful manner that leaves one wondering if he wants fo instigate a conflict, which would lead to a closed thread, hence why I said to ignore him and I stand by that.

As for your opinion, you're entitled to that. I won't be calling you a troll or saying you're rude for disagreeing at all. Sure some folks here are borderline-whining and making unrealistic demands, but it's an expression of frustration and disappointment. As for my own opinion, I stated it and it's an expression of disappointment but I never claimed I'm somehow entitled to EvW; as you said, I never bought anything. Although the failed promises and such about this game are certainly frustrating, especially with a climax like this and having it cancelled. I don't approve of PI's decision, but I do not feel entitled to some silly "consumers' rights" nor have I lost all respect and faith in Paradox; it'll take quite a bit for that to happen and I don't feel compelled to boycott Paradox or something.
 
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Castellon

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Just checking in to see if we should keep this thread open, have we as a community fulfilled our catharsis?

Although I have not posted my own thoughts, reading the whole thread has been interesting for me as well (even some of the more "out there" conspiracy theories proved entertaining and imaginative), I know it was a sad announcement for me and my forum staff that had put a lot of effort into the forum side of things. These decisions are never easy and how we deal with adversity is telling of our character. Want to thank all the PDS, PI and Bl-Logic personnel for their professionalism during this time.

Points I have taken from the thread:

A) Some Member are upset and angry at the cancellation.
B) Some Member feel greater communication is needed in the future.
C) Some Members would like a Cold War game in the future.
D) Some Members want it released in its current state/crowd source funding.

Did I miss any major points raised?

Comments on those points
A) We feel the pain, and are disappointed things did not work out as well.
B) This is definitely something that we will look at going forward.
C) Which games get developed is out of my purview but I will pass it on.
D) I will not explain the realities of the gamming market to explain why the last point is very unlikely to happen although many posters have touched on it, I know it will disappoint but I can only refer you back to Fred's announcement in the first post of this thread.

If I do decide to leave the thread open longer, going forth, I will expect the following:

Keep the language and images work safe.
No external links.
No personal attacks.
Keep to the topic at hand.

Thanks for the input and for participating in the discussion.
 

Minigrinch

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Just checking in to see if we should keep this thread open, have we as a community fulfilled our catharsis?...Thanks for the input and for participating in the discussion.

Thank you guys for being so calm and supportive, when many of the people here are not. :)
 

sovair11

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While this is most assuredly sad, and I don't quite understand why the developers cancelled East vs West, AND I am most assuredly disappointed, it was fun to see the development of this game, and I hope they will start work on something similar in the future, maybe a DLC for the upcoming HoI 4, maybe a revival under the same or a different name, I still have hopes that this may be revived, under one form or another.
 

Antiscamp

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I was really looking forward to EvW. It was going to be one of the high points of 2014. The Cold War is something that isn't well reflected well in any strategy game I know. I was really looking forward to a modern-day geopolitical experience. Oh well.
 

war_biscuit

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Thank you guys for being so calm and supportive, when many of the people here are not. :)

People are upset. Keep in mind this whole event sort of functions like a giant trolling 'gotcha' joke. Now, I don't think it was planned that way, nor was the cancellation intended to upset people, but that doesn't stop it from having a similar effect.

The open development process of the game is great for marketing, creating buzz, and excitement. With the cancellation, that open process turns into something that was dangled in front of people's faces. They were hyped up about how fun and great the game would be only to be told they will never have it. Whether it's intentional or not, people get upset when they're teased.
 

theolor

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I think you should keep it around to remind us of the good that was to come and also for the developers of other games to look at what Bi-Logic did so they can get crap right in their games.
 

Don_Leon

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I will just say what i said 40 pages before, for me anotherww2 game would be just boring.

I was so looking forward to playing this and well hearts of iron4, havent i played this game 3x times before with the same setting?

As i said before all the so called new paradox games looks more like a hollywood after credit crunch version. we know europa sells wells(more dlc) New hearts of iron game(safe bet) and so on and on.

The only " new" game i was looking forward to has no hope, and well ww2 i have played it to death with all the mods.
 
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