A-history suggestions

[JRHINDO]

Portugal should have the option to intervene in the SCW, and if the republicans win, they should be able to invade n puppet them (and maybe sell some colonies for home reconstruction funds too).
Japan should have the possibilty to rethrone Pu Yi at Beijing as a new emperor (of a new dynasty maybe) or divide the land use warlords to rule.

 

[Andrey1984]

What about a-history chain of events where USSR instead of Germany is the main agressor in WW2, where Soviet Union set a goal to spread communism across europe by force (or the whole world).


And what about a-hisotory for WW 1 (DH cover as far as know both world wars). First of all I think one of a-history suggestion can be joining Italy with central powers.

 

[Ithron]

What about a-history chain of events where USSR instead of Germany is the main agressor in WW2, where Soviet Union set a goal to spread communism across europe by force (or the whole world).


And what about a-hisotory for WW 1 (DH cover as far as know both world wars). First of all I think one of a-history suggestion can be joining Italy with central powers.

Well, thats not strictly speaking a-history, is it. Soviet Union never denied or hid its foreign policy goals, even if Stalin delayed the "mass export of revolution" for 2 decades. Also, USSR is already quite of aggresor, with the large border clashes with Japan and invasions of Poland and Finland, so to make it "main", only something abit more dramatic should be added, like maybe attack on Poland on 1st of September, instead of 17th with equal declaration of war on both from the Allies. Or attack on Germany in June 1940, or invasion of Japan in 1938/1939. It's rather tricky to make it "main before Germany" realistically, either it should be before purges of 1937-1938, or before 1st of September, 1939.

 

[Deus Eversor]

USSR would become main agressor only if germany wasnt ruled by hitler and never be millitaristic... europe would be calm and naive still, stalin would have invaded europe by somewhere around '45 having far superior millitary to any present in europe, and the purges would be unlickely to happen (or would be smaller in scale) because the rl one was caused by intrigue fabricated by nazi spies.

 

[Cybvep]

USSR would become main agressor only if germany wasnt ruled by hitler and never be millitaristic... europe would be calm and naive still, stalin would have invaded europe by somewhere around '45 having far superior millitary to any present in europe, and the purges would be unlickely to happen (or would be smaller in scale) because the rl one was caused by intrigue fabricated by nazi spies.

That's a little far fetched...

 

[Haze340]

USSR would become main agressor only if germany wasnt ruled by hitler and never be millitaristic... europe would be calm and naive still, stalin would have invaded europe by somewhere around '45 having far superior millitary to any present in europe, and the purges would be unlickely to happen (or would be smaller in scale) because the rl one was caused by intrigue fabricated by nazi spies.

Been playing Red Alert?

 

[Fulmen]

Well, thats not strictly speaking a-history, is it. Soviet Union never denied or hid its foreign policy goals, even if Stalin delayed the "mass export of revolution" for 2 decades. Also, USSR is already quite of aggresor, with the large border clashes with Japan and invasions of Poland and Finland, so to make it "main", only something abit more dramatic should be added, like maybe attack on Poland on 1st of September, instead of 17th with equal declaration of war on both from the Allies. Or attack on Germany in June 1940, or invasion of Japan in 1938/1939. It's rather tricky to make it "main before Germany" realistically, either it should be before purges of 1937-1938, or before 1st of September, 1939.

The Allies wouldn't have necessarily declared war on Russia even if Stalin hadn't waited for Hitler's progress like he did in OTL. Funny btw, typical to the Russians, they also broke the M-R Pact in this regard. They were supposed to invade at the same time as Germany, but delayed it to see if Hitler gets bogged down. In OTL the Allies let Russia invade Finland, the Baltics and Romania as well, without declaring war on it. Sure it came close in the Winter War, but it still didn't happen.

USSR would become main agressor only if germany wasnt ruled by hitler and never be millitaristic... europe would be calm and naive still, stalin would have invaded europe by somewhere around '45 having far superior millitary to any present in europe, and the purges would be unlickely to happen (or would be smaller in scale) because the rl one was caused by intrigue fabricated by nazi spies.

Okay first off, enough Red Alert and Russian history books for you my friend.

Secondly, in OTL Stalin used Hitler as an "ice breaker" - in 1932 he supported Hitler's rise to power because he wanted Germany to eventually start a war with England and France which would become an exhausting stalemate for both sides, critically weakening them. Then he would come in and "liberate" them (and the rest of Europe in the process). That being said, Russia would've been aggressive sooner or later no matter what, as long as Stalin was in power. Oh and sorry to ruin your image about Stalin, but the Great Purges, the smaller previous and subsequent purges as well as the massive deportations and forced transfers of populations were all due to Stalin's personal paranoia, not some imaginary "intrigue fabricated by Nazi spies" (lmao).

 

[Andrey1984]

I have another alternative history possibility: what if Staufenberg' plot in 1944 was succesful and Hitler was killed? Who will become the ruler of the Germany and what course of WW 2 will be taken. Prehaps the new leader gets rid off Nazi terrors and even sign peace treaty with Western Aliies in order to save his Faterland from the Red Army. Or he will do something else? Who will be this mysterious savior of Germnay?
By the way I've read somewhere that if Staufenber's plot had been succesfull, then the new leader of Germany would become Rommel.

 

[Cybvep]

(...) Stalin used Hitler as an "ice breaker" (...)

I would be careful with Suvorov, too .

I have another alternative history possibility: what if Staufenberg' plot in 1944 was succesful and Hitler was killed? Who will become the ruler of the Germany and what course of WW 2 will be taken. Prehaps the new leader gets rid off Nazi terrors and even sign peace treaty with Western Aliies in order to save his Faterland from the Red Army. Or he will do something else? Who will be this mysterious savior of Germnay?
By the way I've read somewhere that if Staufenber's plot had been succesfull, then the new leader of Germany would become Rommel.

That's interesting. Personally I think that the war would end sooner and with different surrender terms, although negotiations with Stalin could become tricky...

 

[Deus Eversor]

Okay first off, enough Red Alert and Russian history books for you my friend.

Never read one, but stil red alertish option is sound by my understanding. As you said, allies wouldn't dow USSR, well, who cares about China then(and its mp)?

Secondly, in OTL Stalin used Hitler as an "ice breaker" - in 1932 he supported Hitler's rise to power because he wanted Germany to eventually start a war with England and France which would become an exhausting stalemate for both sides, critically weakening them. Then he would come in and "liberate" them (and the rest of Europe in the process). That being said, Russia would've been aggressive sooner or later no matter what, as long as Stalin was in power.

Exactly, hitler was there only speeding things up, maybe to fast even, seeing barbarossa But millitary buildup in Europe was caused by hitlers remilitarism, WWII was in 1939 because French were producing independent tank divisions, not brigades, and German feared their tanks would bash against equal tank corps, not just some single infantry-help-me-out can brigades. If not for hitler, militaries of Europe would certainly stay at levels they ended up after WWI

Oh and sorry to ruin your image about Stalin,

Oh and sorry to stop your righteous crusade thingie there, but i wasn't going to bleach stalin.

but the Great Purges, the smaller previous and subsequent purges as well as the massive deportations and forced transfers of populations were all due to Stalin's personal paranoia, not some imaginary "intrigue fabricated by Nazi spies" (lmao).

Yes, even if there was no intrigue, let's just settle with that stalin overheard some whispers. Anyway, i wrote about that, because i seen it in polish documentary, and polish documentary, posted on polish state chennel, are certainly not: prostalinist, prorusian, progerman, procommunist, etc. Actually you could say they are anti, but still, reliable.

 

[datachild]

I have another alternative history possibility: what if Staufenberg' plot in 1944 was succesful and Hitler was killed? Who will become the ruler of the Germany and what course of WW 2 will be taken. Prehaps the new leader gets rid off Nazi terrors and even sign peace treaty with Western Aliies in order to save his Faterland from the Red Army. Or he will do something else? Who will be this mysterious savior of Germnay?
By the way I've read somewhere that if Staufenber's plot had been succesfull, then the new leader of Germany would become Rommel.

That's interesting. Personally I think that the war would end sooner and with different surrender terms, although negotiations with Stalin could become tricky...

I'm not 100% sure, but i remember that most military leaders (e.g. Manstein) were convinced, that a coup would of cause lead to internal riots and ultimately only accelerate the collapse of the eastern front.

As one responsible for an army group in the field, I did not feel that I had the right to contemplate a coup d'etat in wartime because in my view it would have led to an immediate collapse of the front and probably to chaos inside Germany

So the result of a coup would have resulted in the same peace as in real life in the best of circumstances and a soviet Germany in the worst (and most likely) circumstances, which is of cause an interesting scenario for a cold/3rd world war.
A much more interesting scenario would be a coup in the early years of nazism between 1936 and 1940. I read Mansteins book and I think he said something along the lines, that during this period a revolt may have been a success, but after the begining of the war in 1939 because of the triumphs in the first years there wasn't any majority in the general staff and when the tide turned it was to late to save Germany.

EDIT: Then again a scenario where Hitler never assumed total military control and the military still governs itself could lead to a scenario where German military plays the major role and the Nazis are just a puppet to the military regime, not the other way around. Then prior or shortly after the war the military could decided to replace the current government withmore loyal/less difficult elements of the military or the old Kaiserreich.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

A 1914 or 1940 Turtledove scenario would be AWESOME

For all who don't know what this is: It's a story by the alt-hist veteran Harry Turtledove, where WW1 was fought between Germany/Austria/Ottoman Empire/Italy/USA on one side ("Central Powers") and UK/France/Russia/Confederate States on the other side ("Quadruple Entente"). The central powers win the war after a long and bloody war (like the real WW1), and impose a harsh peace.

In 1941 the rematch is fought out, featuring a revanchist Confederate States of America patterned after Nazi Germany, which wins initial successes (cutting the USA in two), overextends and loses a stalingradesque "Battle of Pittsburgh" and eventually succumbs to US counteroffensives and atomic bombs.

The whole thing would be a lot of fun in a DH type game, not the less because the WW1 situation is more or less 1:1 taken from history with North America, the Pacific and the Atlantic added in as an additional theatre. (The US surprise the UK in the Pacific with a strike against the "Sandwich Islands", i.e. Hawaii; there's trench warfare in Kentucky, Virginia and the Appalachians; cruiser and U-Boat warfare in the Atlantic and Pacific etc etc etc)

 

[olvirki]

I have another alternative history possibility: what if Staufenberg' plot in 1944 was succesful and Hitler was killed? Who will become the ruler of the Germany and what course of WW 2 will be taken. Prehaps the new leader gets rid off Nazi terrors and even sign peace treaty with Western Aliies in order to save his Faterland from the Red Army. Or he will do something else? Who will be this mysterious savior of Germnay?

I support this. Nice idea.

And I may be off topic but is there 1918 scenario ? That would create allot of nice ahistoric possibilities.

 

[Fulmen]

I have another alternative history possibility: what if Staufenberg' plot in 1944 was succesful and Hitler was killed?

This would've probably lead to civil war, an even faster collapse of Germany and more of Europe becoming under Communist rule than in OTL.

I would be careful with Suvorov, too.

Naturally Suvorov isn't my only source, but I admit that I was thinking about his book when I said that ice breaker thing.

As you said, allies wouldn't dow USSR, well, who cares about China then(and its mp)?

I was doubting they would DoW, but mind you they also came fairly close to doing it IRL, but just once (during the Winter War).

But millitary buildup in Europe was caused by hitlers remilitarism, WWII was in 1939 because French were producing independent tank divisions, not brigades, and German feared their tanks would bash against equal tank corps, not just some single infantry-help-me-out can brigades. If not for hitler, militaries of Europe would certainly stay at levels they ended up after WWI

Not just because of Hitler's militarism, but also Stalin's. Also keep in mind that the democracies of Europe were lagging well behind in rearming their militaries (ironically much like today).

I'm not quite sure about that one..AFAIK France distributed its tanks equally to its forces and intended them to be used as infantry support. De Gaulle was one of the few Frenchmen that advocated the German model of amassing tanks into one critical spot causing a decisive breakthrough, but he was overruled at the time.

WWII happened in 1939 and not later because Hitler believed England and France would not go to war over Poland. He had a reason to believe so, not just because of Ribbentrop's assurances, but also because Stalin practically told him to "go ahead and invade", despite Stalin knowing well from previous talks with the Allies that they would in fact go to war over Poland.

Yes, even if there was no intrigue, let's just settle with that stalin overheard some whispers. Anyway, i wrote about that, because i seen it in polish documentary, and polish documentary, posted on polish state chennel, are certainly not: prostalinist, prorusian, progerman, procommunist, etc. Actually you could say they are anti, but still, reliable.

Stalin may have "overheard whispers", but it's more likely that it was just some of his lackeys telling him lies about their competitors to get rid of them in order to gain more power and favour with Stalin. That, or just his personal paranoia. Probably both.

And I may be off topic but is there 1918 scenario ? That would create allot of nice ahistoric possibilities.

+1

EDIT: A great scenario would be one that starts in 1918, but at a point where Germany still has a chance to do something about her domestic situation and avoid doing stupid things that may cause a revolution and lead to the collapse of the whole country. I'm thinking about something somewhat similar to the 1944 scenario, although militarily nowhere near as desperate for Germany. But if Germany is played by the AI in this scenario, it'd almost always choose historical decisions and the war would end on or around the historical date.

PS. I'd love to play as Finland in a 1917-18 scenario.

 

[olvirki]

PS. I'd love to play as Finland in a 1917-18 scenario.

I was thinking about that when i suggested the 1918 scenario .

Also.... ahh cant remember what i was about to say. Damn it

Edit: Now i remember. Is there a converter from Vicky 2 => Arsenal of democracy/Darkest hour ?

And Darkest hour is a up coming expansion for Arsenal of Democracy, right ?

 

[^_AC_^]

And Darkest hour is a up coming expansion for Arsenal of Democracy, right ?

No, it is a standalone game not related to AoD.

 

[Porkman]

Not just because of Hitler's militarism, but also Stalin's. Also keep in mind that the democracies of Europe were lagging well behind in rearming their militaries (ironically much like today).


+1

I can't see how the democracies are lagging behind today.

 

[Andrey1984]

WWII happened in 1939 and not later because Hitler believed England and France would not go to war over Poland. He had a reason to believe so, not just because of Ribbentrop's assurances, but also because Stalin practically told him to "go ahead and invade", despite Stalin knowing well from previous talks with the Allies that they would in fact go to war over Poland.

This message makes me thinking about a-historical event. What if UK and France didn't support Poland in 1939. Germany invades Poland on September 1 1939 as in OTL but it is a local war not world war. So after victory Germans would have several options what to do next: a) to prepare for invasion of the Soviet Union in 1940; b) war with western democracies because of Ascale-Lotaring; c) some other option (Scandinavia, Balkans or something else);
I think the first option is the most interesting one. In this timeline there will be no Lend-Lease for USSR because neither UK or USA are at war with Germany. As matter of fact before WW2 Soviet Union was considered as as threat by the West, and France and UK in some way had hope that Third Reich will DOW the USSR and both dictators will be weakend during this war and then neither of them would be a menace to democracatic states.

And what about a-suggstions for Italy. What if Italy was succesful in warfare. First their own blitzkrieg with Greece and Yugoslavia, then their succes in Noth Africa. What would happen next? Will Musolini try conquer Persia and India or wil he DOW Turkey and capture Istanbul? Will Faschist Italy become the New Roman Empire? Actually that is my point: if Italy leads succesful war and archives all its goals there should be an event which turn Italy inti New Roman Empire (name of the country can be some other) with it's own Flag.

By the way if I am no mistake scenario of WW 2 in DH start in 1933, so another possibillity for Italy can be joining to the Allies. The main event which would lead to such choice of Italy? Local war between Germany and Italy over Austria if Hitler attems to annex it in 1934.

 

[Andrey1984]

By there way: will be any event after WW 2 or like the called post war events? I think there are also many possibility for A-history from Germany total victory and what will happen after that to a-historical events where UK or US free Ukaine ( from Nazi occupation. Or some cold war a-historical events.

 

[^_AC_^]

By the way if I am no mistake scenario of WW 2 in DH start in 1933[...]

That's not true. There is a 1936 scenario, not a 1933 scenario.