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Marlborough

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I think all of us would agree that the game was shipped unfinished, and that was wrong. However, I am not sure that the fault lies with Paradox.

I have been a follower of Paradox and their games since long before the initial release of EU1. For those of us in North America on this board who remember those days, there was a signficant question about whether EU1 would ever even be released in North America, or even if there were a version in English. The first versions of EU, if I remember correctly, were released in German and Swedish. Those of us who were monolingual in English could only look on with envy, as our friends in the European gaming community had access to this awesome-sounding new game.

Why, you ask, did this happen? Because Paradox at the time had no PUBLISHER for their material in either England or North America. The hot topic/complaint on these boards at that time was 'when will Paradox get their act in gear and get us an English/North American version available for sale?' Then, they found a publisher in England, and those of us here in North America were busy scheming, figuring out our dollar/pound conversion rates, and discovering how to order a copy from a distributor in the UK.

Then, suddenly, and somewhat unexpectedly, Paradox made an announcement to the board. They had secured a North American publisher -- a company named Strategy First had agreed to market and distribute their games in North America. While it seems laughable to think so now, at the time, their was great rejoicing at this announcement, and ALL were singing the praises of Strategy First.

So, what does all this history have to do with a product that is released before it is ready for market? Well, unfortunately, quite a bit. It is my recollection and understanding that Paradox, as it consisted at the time, would have been unable to bring EU to the North American market without Strategy First's (or some other North American publisher's) financial, marketing and distribution network. That would have meant an extremely limited penetration of EU1 into the North American market, and most likely, NO EU2, NO HOI, and NO Crusader Kings.

Unfortunately, the price that Paradox seemingly had to pay for this ability to have much greater distribution through using Strategy First was a corresponding loss of control in certain areas, including control over the release dates of products. It is a sad but unmistakable fact that virtually all computer game distributors are more than willing to release products in buggy, alpha/beta states in order to conform to a seasonal marketing/sales plan. We all would like this to change, but it will probably not. I am sure that the Paradox team is not particular happy about this turn of events -- in fact, you can see it in their diligent work to support each of their titles after release with further patches, willingness to listen to constructive criticism, accomodation to the need of modders, and so on. This is rare in a computer game company today. Many have pointed to the excellent work of John Tiller games as evidence of how things should be done -- that is fine, Tiller should be praised, but remember, his games are targeted towards an extremely narrow hard core niche -- not marketed to the masses through Electronics Boutique and Comp USA.

So, in conclusion, my point is, the next time you want to curse Paradox for a game released too early, gripe about how you are returning or selling your copy, complain about the AI, or rue the day Paradox became associated with Strategy First, remember -- there was a reason why all of this happened, and ironically, some of it was due to the demands of the user community in North America for a product we had heard was available in Europe called Europa Universalis a few years ago.
 

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Originally posted by Marlborough
So, in conclusion, my point is, the next time you want to curse Paradox for a game released too early, gripe about how you are returning or selling your copy, complain about the AI, or rue the day Paradox became associated with Strategy First, remember -- there was a reason why all of this happened, and ironically, some of it was due to the demands of the user community in North America for a product we had heard was available in Europe called Europa Universalis a few years ago.


Your absolutely right consumer demand drives the games to market if we didnt buy them there wouldnt be an issue. Yeah everyone who knows the gaming industry publishers push thedevelopers for early releases.

What I dont get is the fact that Paradox has a track record of patching thier games, yet the anquish on the boards seems to be so overwhelming. Consider yourself lucky you bought a game that is supported, some games (total war series) you get one patch then its off to the next title.

Nope HOI isnt perfect, but I think the posts on this board are harsh because everyone see's the potential for more, thats not a bad thing. Bottom line is stick with the companies that support thier games, you can go elsewhere but chances are you will find the imperfections in those games as well, and at the very least you know Paradox is going to attempt to patch thier games to get you your moneys worth.

In the gaming world as it stands today, thats worth giving them a bit of a break once in awhile.

Odin
 

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Hear Hear Let Me Add My Voice

Cheers to Paradox for bringing us great games and for standing behind them. I quit buying Sierra games because of the opposite. They released buggy half-finished crap then abandoned it. I also want to put a word in for Strategy First. They seem to have their problems, but they bring the best games to the market for strategy gamers. IIRC, the Kohan games were Strategy First games also, and those games rocked. By far my favorite RTS (I don't really consider the EU/HOI family "rts") games. I suspect Strategy First has cash flow issues that make them have to hit a Christmas season, whereas the distributor of MOO3 can afford to push a game back two months.

My one criticism of Paradox for 1.03 is I think they were a little TOO responsive to this community, and a little over-eager in trying to improve with the 1.03 patch. I think had they introduced fewer gameplay changes and concentrated on getting out a patch that dealt with just the more serious issues, they would have dramatically improved the game without introducing as many new problems as they appear to have introduced.

I'm also a little annoyed with all the criticism of the AI. What game AI does not do stupid crap? I've never seen one that doesn't. And I do not think the guys running hands-off games then criticizing the AI are giving a fair trial. The game is not designed to play against itself. The guy who was Switzerland and complaining about all the units France and Germany kept on his border was off base. He set up an unnatural situation then complained about the way the game responded. Had he been FRANCE, it would have made sense for Germany to keep a lot of units on his border. The game is designed on the assumption that players will play France, NOT Switzerland. I think the AI is serviceable, and by opening so much of the ai to modding now, I think it will only get better through the efforts of the community.

But remember this: the greater the level of achievement and the higher the hopes, the sharper the criticism. If these boards were dead, then Paradox would REALLY have a problem.
 

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I work in the game industry myself, and you are spot on. Publishers want games out on a certain schedule, whether they are polished or not. Sierra has become horribly adept at releasing unfinishing products. On top of that, they tie the hands of the developers from releasing many or ANY significant patches.

There aren't too many games that have the support HoI does and I want to commend Paradox for sticking by their product. No developer wants to see their game released early, especially something they worked on for 1-2 years or more. There is only so much money that can be spent on making a game, especially for smaller companies. They have a lot of people to pay, and they aren't making any money until that game is released (Unless they have cash leftover from previously successful games). So while it would be great for someone to spend 4 years making the ultimate WWII strategy game...not many companies have the cash or time to do so.

HoI is a great game, despite it's problems. I feel lucky they are even patching the game. Just imagine for a moment, please, if there were no patches for HoI and you were forever stuck with the original version.
 

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Regardless of the above, the next time I see a Paradox \ Strategy First game released, I'm going to assume that the first release is a piece of junk and won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

If I wait till the game is in the $9.95 discount bin, I can assume all the patches and mods are done for the game, and it will actually be playable at that time.
 

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This is what Paradox has delivered. And for this, I am greatly indebted to them. :)