A few things on the Bulgarian Culture and Bulgarian State (De Jures)

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Dunerat

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Oct 15, 2022
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Last time I explored two heresies that made their way/formed into Bulgaria, and how they could be improved to feel more truthful, in This Post.

Now I will explore relatively minor gripes with the State of Bulgaria as it is represented in CK3, it's Culture, and possible solutions;

Consider HOT TAKES written in screenshots as radical ideas that are not necessarily true issues, rather an option for a possible change if Devs want it to, as they are more prone to arguments for-and-against.

Also I will not explore the Elephant in the Room that is Orthodoxy here/yet, but I just want to mention it - figure out a way to make nation-bound extra Patriarchates, PDX! It is a huge part of history and what makes Orthodoxy....well, Orthodoxy, different from catholicism!

Anyway:

1. Culture:

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2. Duchies:

As of right now, there is one "Kingdom of Bulgaria", but also one "Duchy of Bulgaria" that is actually Vardar - creating an awkward dublicate of Title-naming, made even more awkward by the fact one is superior to the other, and also overlaps it!

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Furthermore on the subject of Renaming Duchy of Bulgaria to "Duchy of Vardar" or "Duchy of Ohrid" - it has the added bonus of shutting up modern FYROMs, as it is as historically neutral a term as it gets. Culturally and Historically speaking, Ohrid always has been an important locale to control, so it would make sense for the Duchy to be named after it or its region.

The rest of the suggestions in Screenshot Two are of less importance, but should be considered regardless. Sredets by itself for example has enough size of its own to be considered its own Duchy. If Krete can be a damn kingdom with just two counties, a Sredets with 4 tiles can qualify for duchy status - and geographically speaking, it is in its own enclosed biome anyway.

Thanks for reading.
 
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We had a long interesting heated discussion about Bulgaria in the Past: Link here as a result of which Paradox fixed some things that were bothersome especially about the Border in northern Thrace.
They actually did make Bulgarian culture diversion from Bolghar at the first patch of Royal court but with Slavic heritage. If they give it Turkic Heritage - no kidding they would lock the country on clan government and Dynasty Title naming, which is is a big problem on its own, since it makes playing a custom Bolghar Character massively frustrating and inaccurate. I actually think the Hybridization is more accurate to the Confederation between Bolghars and Slavs and the Language Influence of the Slavs but not with Croations or serbs just with Slavs, period! and I do not like the konni as a common cav being used. Bulgarians shoud have Horse archers or Heavy cav because the Bolghar cav was still in use.
The Duchy of Bulgaria was named after the Theme of Bulgaria in the Byzantine Empire and is quite Historical (admittedly only in Byzantine times). The Capital in Ohrid would be, I agree, much better though.
Duchy of Rumelia is not acurate because of it existing as an ottoman naming scheme only. the name Plovdiv is a slavic interpretation of the Name Pulpudeva which was the Thracian translatioon of Philippopolis (the City of Philip).
 
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not Croations or serbs, just with Slavs, period!
This one works too.
The Duchy of Bulgaria was named after the Theme of Bulgaria in the Byzantine Empire and is quite Historical (admittedly only in Byzantine times)
It is more of a case of it being identical with the Kingdom of Bulgaria title. You start in 867 as the King of Bulgaria, Boris I, and then you look at Vladimir Rasate who is...Duke of Bulgaria.
Oh and even more importantly - the initial borders of De Jure DUCHY OF BULGARIA is actually outside of the borders of De Jure KINGDOM OF BULGARIA, its superior!

Duchy of Rumelia is not acurate because of it existing as an ottoman naming scheme only.
I named it Romelia in my own game, I'm still searching for more fitting name, BUT
You are only half right. "Romelia" was popularized during ottoman times, yes, but it doesn't take away from its core word root - Rome (the U in R(u)omelia was added by the Turks, not Bulgarians of old). In ancient historic sources and common school history books byzantines are often referred to not as just byzantines, but also as "Romeiy" - our own word for Eastern Romans. And given that early on in our history, what is now referred to as Romelia was indeed in the control of the Romeiy (before we yonked it off them and it became part of medieval Bulgaria and modern Bulgaria) - it is not entirely culturally or historically incorrect to call to Romelia. But as I said, I am open to suggestions to an even better-fitting name than that.
 
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It is more of a case of it being identical with the Kingdom of Bulgaria title. You start in 867 as the King of Bulgaria, Peter I, and then you look at Vladimir Rasate who is...Duke of Bulgaria.
It got imported from CK2 I guess. I have more problems with the Fact, that Kingdoms appear out of inheritance, that did not yet exist - like Wallachia and Moldova, which were at most Duchies and not Kingdoms and are kind of anachronistic.
it is not entirely culturally or historically incorrect to call to Romelia. But as I said, I am open to suggestions to an even better-fitting name than that.
I guess the Bulgarian Translation Duchy of Plovdiv would be better. The Name Duchy of Philippopolis is far better than the real Byzantine name: Theme of Makedonia, which is what the Byzantines called northern Thrace officially. Imagine how disturbing would be to call it that way.
The Duchy of Philippopolis is a real thing though. It was a French crusader state duchy after the 4th Crusade conquered it. It got reintegrated later in Bulgaria but there is no reason to think it changed its name. Maybe Bulgaria used the Translation Plovdiv though.
 
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We had a long interesting heated discussion about Bulgaria in the Past: Link here
Reading through this reminds me of a few more little gripes:

- 867 Bulgaria should really start with at least Partition (the tribal tech) already unlocked, and probably at least Low Crown Authority, arguably High Crown Authority. It would be both more truthful AND prevent many immersion-shattering issues AI Bulgaria ends up with; We figured this stuff out by 632 for Christ's Sake!
- Vlach Vidin is...more of a modern-day meme than anything else. Vidin was at one point its own separatist Bulgarian Kingdom, so I highly doubt it was that Vlach. It probably had some notable Vlach minority, sure, but a majority?
- Blinding not being inheritance issue...
- Constantinople not automatically renaming itself when you conquer it as Bulgaria to "Tsarigrad" (I have to do it manually) :p
- Not getting 'Tsar' Title as Empire-tier Bulgaria as a manner of fact, related to the above;
- Counts should probably be called Bolyars imo, also related to the above;
- Other examples escaping my mind rn
 
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I don’t have much to add but here’s a good reference map to show Bulgaria in this time could have more towns in the south (pardon the Byzantine names)
1675042429031.jpeg

0F8EAFAB-F240-46AC-A640-CCD45E571B38.jpeg

Personally I think Develtos and Ankhialos should be added to the map, both were much more relevant in CK3s time frame than Burgas which won’t be the replacement as the main port of the region or even mentioned in sources until some 150 years after 1066. From Krum to Peter it was Develtos they were sieging out not Burgas.
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Varna should also be the county capital over Mesembria, I was gonna suggest to separate them as counties but I myself don’t know of any other notable towns during the period in the region by Varna.

I also think the counties of
•Zherkovo
•Pirin
•Beroe
Should be Bulgarian culture or at at least the unused(like all hybrids) Greco-Bulgarian hybrid culture in 867 and 1066.
Philipopolis’s culture I’m conflicted on in both starts, also is it just me or is it in the wrong spot ingame.
 
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- Counts should probably be called Bolyars imo, also related to the above;
Bolyars or Boyars is just a name for a noble not a specific land title. Count should be called Komita (it is the same root but Bulgarian) like Komita Nikola - the father of Samuil. And Duke should be called Voevoda in my opinion (like the Duchy of Voevodina). Both titles have a freedom fighter against Ottoman rule ring to it in Bulgarian, but I guess the people gave noble titles to the rebel leaders in the times under the Ottomann rule. The truth is - those titles existed long before.
 
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I also think the counties of
•Zherkovo
•Pirin
•Beroe
Should be Bulgarian culture or at at least the unused(like all hybrids) Greco-Bulgarian hybrid culture in 867 and 1066.
Philipopolis’s culture I’m conflicted on in both starts, also is it just me or is it in the wrong spot ingame.
Agree. And Philippopolis (Plovdiv) was a mixed population of Greek, Bulgarian, Armenian, Jewish and later Turkish (at least the city itself) well until the end of 19th century. My great Grandfather born in Plovidiv and was a chief of police there and even though Bulgarian, he was also speaking fluently Greek.
 
Great thread! I would personally add a South Slavic heritage, extinct Moesian culture and make Bulgarian a mixture of Moesian and Bolghar.
 
extinct Moesian culture
A dead 'Thracian' Culture will also work (and is often the official historical take of how modern Bulgarian formed - a mixture of Bulgar invaders, remnants of Traki/Thracians, and later on Slavs).
Not to be mistaken with the geographical region of Thrace btw.
 
A dead 'Thracian' Culture will also work (and is often the official historical take of how modern Bulgarian formed - a mixture of Bulgar invaders, remnants of Traki/Thracians, and later on Slavs).
Not to be mistaken with the geographical region of Thrace btw.
Although a significant part (majority percentage) of modern day Bulgarians DNA, those Thracians were heavily latinized north of the Balkan Mountain and hellenized south of it - not to mention heavily Christianized, so they were not a willing participant of the early nation formation, since they were loyal to Byzantium. Their Integration came later through slow assimilation. Their culture and architecture (roman one) influenced Bulgaria a lot but if you see them as a Hybridizing culture- it should not be Thracian but roman in a way.
The Slavs in contrast were pagan and open to external powers who promised them Protection from tribes and Christians alike and keeping their rule in their lands, so they were willing participants from the start. Of course the Slavic language was the great equalizer, but it became one after the Invention of the glagolic and Cyrillic Alphabet.
 
Varna should also be the county capital over Mesembria, I was gonna suggest to separate them as counties but I myself don’t know of any other notable towns during the period in the region by Varna.
Varna works, but another good answer is Karvuna! (Tho I think it's a city in the game rn)
Karvuna was the capital of the Dobrudjan Despoty at the eve of the Ottoman invasions of the fragmented Second Bulgarian Empire. Prior to that, when it was not a capital, it was a notable stronghold to control.
Varna is a great conventional pick nonetheless. When in doubt, Port City is often the answer.
 
On the topic of the titles I would like to add some more basic info about the administration and nobility of medieval Bulgaria.

  • The title of Voivoda is a direct translation of the greek strategos which litteraly means “army leader”. In game the the duchies of Moldova and Wallachia were Voivodships during the Second Bulgarian Empire and de jure it is not a hereditary title but as the central authority became weaker it became de facto a hereditary title.
  • On the title of Komita (the latin Comes). This is actually an exonym as it is mentioned in some foreign sources. The native Bulgarian title is a tarkhan and thus the basic administrative division is a tarkhanate ( тарканства). There were different tiers/types of tarkhans – boritarkhan, oglutarkhan, zhupantarkhan ect. , but we do not know exactly what functions they had.
On the topic of the Bulgarian names , I would say thay need to be completely revised. Most of the males right now are ecclesial/clergy names, others are typical for other south slavs but not Bulgarians. The female names on the other hand are 90% common Bulgarian names from the XX century and have very little in common with the actual medieval names.



On the topic of inheritance, Bulgarian culture should be locked to agnatic. There was not a single female “duke” or “king” in Bulgarian history in fact even women related to a prestigious bloodlines were omitted during inheritance ( but theirs sons were not). But since the game does not have such inheritance laws that allow a male ruler but through a female line it is more accurate to be agnatic.
 
On the topic of the titles I would like to add some more basic info about the administration and nobility of medieval Bulgaria.

  • The title of Voivoda is a direct translation of the greek strategos which litteraly means “army leader”. In game the the duchies of Moldova and Wallachia were Voivodships during the Second Bulgarian Empire and de jure it is not a hereditary title but as the central authority became weaker it became de facto a hereditary title.
  • On the title of Komita (the latin Comes). This is actually an exonym as it is mentioned in some foreign sources. The native Bulgarian title is a tarkhan and thus the basic administrative division is a tarkhanate ( тарканства). There were different tiers/types of tarkhans – boritarkhan, oglutarkhan, zhupantarkhan ect. , but we do not know exactly what functions they had.
On the topic of the Bulgarian names , I would say thay need to be completely revised. Most of the males right now are ecclesial/clergy names, others are typical for other south slavs but not Bulgarians. The female names on the other hand are 90% common Bulgarian names from the XX century and have very little in common with the actual medieval names.



On the topic of inheritance, Bulgarian culture should be locked to agnatic. There was not a single female “duke” or “king” in Bulgarian history in fact even women related to a prestigious bloodlines were omitted during inheritance ( but theirs sons were not). But since the game does not have such inheritance laws that allow a male ruler but through a female line it is more accurate to be agnatic.
Remember that the theme (Byzantine Duchy viceroyalty) was ruled by a Strategos (even tough the Byzantines had Doux also), so it is logical that the title of Duchy is supposed to be Voevoda even if at first it was a viceroy. Komita is an exonym for the early Bolghars but was officially in use by Bulgarians in the Time before Samuil (so during the rule of Petar I) at latest. Tarkan and Zhupan were probably the counts of Bolghar origin, but the Language equalized everything. Even though such things as ichirgu Boil and Kavkhan still existed having a Komita as early as the father of Samuil speaks volumes that those titles were changing.
There is also a linguistic consideration there. The Bulgarian language kept specific Bolghar Titles like Boil but others like Zhupan, tarkhan, kolobar, Kavkhan, ichirgu Boil and Kanasubigi only exist because of historical texts or because of archeological findings.
I am all for keeping the maximum of Bolghar titles especially kolobar, Kavkhan and Ichirgu Boil and even Kanasubigi for the King tier Ruler instead of Knyaz (of course emperor should always be named Tsar), but it is better also to use familiar words for most titles which Komita and Voevoda are in Bulgarian. Not to mention those titles carry some extra swag with them in Bulgarian.
 
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Due the fact that the game time period is around 600 it is only normal that the functions of some titles will change with the time. That apples especially for Bulgaria as the restored Bulgarian empire in 13th century had different titles and administration from the one in the 9th . That said a compromise must be made . As you said a Voivoda could be the duchy level title and the tarkhan could be the county one . I am against the use of komita as it is used in a very short time span of 10th century only and on top of that it is used along the Bulgarian equivalent of tarkhan. Also it seems the that tarkhan is much more frequently used than komita ( in the byzantine sources it is used along the title archon for the Bulgarian rule). One can argue that these two title are the same thing with different name. Komita is a familiar title in modern Bulgarian but it is only mentioned only 2 times in the primary sources compared to the tarkhan IIRC.

BTW the title of khagan seems to be used by Boris aswell and probably by his ancestors.

…..Praeeretat eis quidam nomine Boris, quem lingua sua cagan appelabant quod in lingua nostra resonat imperator sub quo erat VIII principes…..

Annales de Dioclea
 
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Due the fact that the game time period is around 600 it is only normal that the functions of some titles will change with the time. That apples especially for Bulgaria as the restored Bulgarian empire in 13th century had different titles and administration from the one in the 9th . That said a compromise must be made . As you said a Voivoda could be the duchy level title and the tarkhan could be the county one . I am against the use of komita as it is used in a very short time span of 10th century only and on top of that it is used along the Bulgarian equivalent of tarkhan. Also it seems the that tarkhan is much more frequently used than komita ( in the byzantine sources it is used along the title archon for the Bulgarian rule). One can argue that these two title are the same thing with different name. Komita is a familiar title in modern Bulgarian but it is only mentioned only 2 times in the primary sources compared to the tarkhan IIRC.

BTW the title of khagan seems to be used by Boris aswell and probably by his ancestors.

…..Praeeretat eis quidam nomine Boris, quem lingua sua cagan appelabant quod in lingua nostra resonat imperator sub quo erat VIII principes…..

Annales de Dioclea
the time period is not 600 but 867, which is late enough to consider komita. And Tarkhan was mentioned in no source after the christianization and several gradual byzantifiicatons of Bulgaria, so if the devs pick those older titles - they would be anachronistic in the lifespam of the game 867-1450. Althow Ichirgui Boil and Kavkhan were obviousley used far until the turn of the millenium, so those are plausable. However if Bulgaria gets a kind of Byzantine government form, than additional tiltle such as Sebastokrator and Despot should be in use.

Also no mention of Comita does not mean it did not exist in the second Bulgarian empire. Bulgarian sources cited more titular titles like Sebastokrator or noble titles like Bolyar (the evolution of Boil), which are not tied to landowning. But because CK functions only on landholding - the titles schould be clear landed ones like comita. And if the title really disapeared during the second Bulgarian empire, why did it reapear as a Haydut title during the Ottoman rule? I do not think it dissapeared.

That was cool if true, that Boris called himself Khagan in correspondence to the Pope. His predecessor Presian called himself Kanasubigi in the Philippi inscription. Maybe Borist tried if the pope would give him the emperor official recognition. I can see where Simeon inherited that ambition from.
 
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I would disagree about the tarkhans. There are a lot of tarkhans mentioned during the Christian period including in delegations in Constantinople in mid 10th century ( kalutarkhan Simeon that was present at the wedding of Peter and Maria , the granddaughter of Romanos Lakapenus). I fact there are more tarkhans mentioned in the Christian period than komitas. This title probably died out together with the kavkhan, ichirguboil ect.

If Bulgaria gets a byzantine type of government which it should have for the mid to late game, and obviously should get all the byz titles including the court ones, as Bulgaria pretty much copied the Empire at that period. But one must consider that Bulgaria copied the Byzantines at that time partly because it was ruled by them for ~180 years . If Bulgaria was not conquered by the Byzantines one could only speculate what would it be, for certain a lot of byzantine influence but how much is a matter of speculation.

The so called haidut komitas appeared very late in the ottoman era in fact in 19th century way too late to make any connections to the old Bulgaria. The title komit could be preserved for low rank landlords in the same manner as knyaz was used for the village elder/mayor during the 13-14 century


Speaking of baronies, the bulgarian equivalent could be bagain/baghatur
 
I would disagree about the tarkhans. There are a lot of tarkhans mentioned during the Christian period including in delegations in Constantinople in mid 10th century ( kalutarkhan Simeon that was present at the wedding of Peter and Maria , the granddaughter of Romanos Lakapenus).
Very interesting, did not read about that. It makes sense to use them in that case.

However do we really know what those titles mean? I myself heard, that Tarkhan means mayor, who can really tell what those meant for sure. Comita and Voevoda are as a contrast cool sounding translations of the Titles CK is wanting to emphasize on.
Baghaturs are already step cavalry men at arms units in this game - used by every step tribe,

We do not know when the Haidut komitas appeared. It is 19 century because, that is when the Bulgarian sources started to write accounts on their story down. Seriouisly doubt, komitas began in 19 century out of nowhere with last mention being the father of Samuil.
 
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We dont know what litteral translation means, alteast in the context of the Danube Bulgars. We only know that it was hight ranking title. Bare in mind that there were different types of tarkhans aswell. For example we know that when the disciples of St Cyril and Methodius came to Bulgaria, they were initially greeted by the boritarkhan of Belgrade a very important strategic city and fortress.

Well baghaturs are indeed a knight rank title . The bagain on the other hand correspond to the baron I think.

As for the haiduk comitas tbh it could be from anywhere . The haiduks used much more voivoda. While the komit (comes) could be reintroduced from somewhere else as it is acctualy a latin that existed in differnt forms in the west.