A few random thoughts on Stellaris II

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Liggi

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Things I'd like to see:

  • Exploration that doesn't "end". There are a few different ways to achieve this. Make exploration take longer (ie. slower surveys, away teams, planetary exploration, add relevance for planetary flora and fauna), make space bigger (more systems, or larger systems), or allow exploration of other empires' space with an agreement and allow the possibility that you might find things that they missed.

  • Dynamic Galactic History, and dynamic events and event chains. There's generally an inherent tradeoff between randomness and emergent stories, and well-written stories that are compelling. One issue with Stellaris is once you've seen a storyline play out, there's really no reason to pay attention to it ever again. The Cybrex, the Zroni, whatever it is, once you've done it, you've done it. I'd love to see a system whereby every galaxy truly is different. A dynamically generated Galactic History for you to discover would make each game fresh, and a dynamic event / exploration system would mean infinite combinations to allow for a unique experience every time you play.

  • A focus on ideas. Sci-fi is usually about ideas. What types of societies could exist? How would a particular type of society change in reaction to learning of the existence of another friendly or threatening civilisation? At the moment, this is modelled in a very particulate way. You have "Civics", which are fixed sets of ideas that define your Government that can be added and removed. You have a simple faction system representing a set of ethics, but it doesn't really matter or affect anything. The next iteration should be far, far more dynamic. Ideas should be able to spread between civilizations and between planets, individual worlds can form their own unique cultures, factions within your empire vie for power and influence. Ideas being spreading, merging, changing all the time. In response to contact between empires, in response to events within the galaxy itself (wars, Federations, mass migrations, natural disasters).

  • Characters, not leaders. This is the most controversial, as I know it's very much outside the philosophy of Stellaris as it stands. Every great sci-fi has characters of galactic significance: Darth Vader, Command Shepherd, Apophis, Captain Kirk, the list is endless. Characters often define the sci-fi experience and are extremely central to it.

How about you? What would you like to see?
 
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Al Davoodi

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I wish also there would be more focus on the characters, something more CK like. So we would have feel the struggle and the motives by different characters and might able as a player to support or not them in their different goals to archieve.
 
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Jaxck

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If Stellaris 2 ends up with logistical pop growth, I'm not going to buy it no matter how improved every other system might be. As to your points,

  • Check out this mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2479774068). It adds a pair of structures that allows you to add additional stars to the galaxy map, allowing for effectively infinite exploration. It also allows for merging of broken sectors, which may be one of my favourite features of any mod ever (can we please just get Planetary Governors for larger worlds? Like if a planet has 30 pops but isn't in a sector, I should be able to assign a governor regardless. A Mayor of New York type of situation).
  • This would be great, however I'm not sure exactly what you're driving at. Do you mean event chains which intertwine, with there simply being so many combinations that you'll never encounter the same pairing twice? Or do you mean a fully procedural history, ala Dwarf Fortress? Or do you mean a set of linear storylines as we have now, but presented in a modular way ala Hades?
  • Totally agree with this. Ethics need an overhaul, not to add more but to make empires the focus rather than pops. One change I'd make tomorrow would be to take ethics off pops, and instead track ethics by planet. However I'd also add in some non-ethics political perspectives, such as Nationalism (doesn't care how the empire is run, just cares that it's this empire), Colonialism (the goal of the people here is to build a functional society, the shape of that society being less important than its existence), or Antagonism (cares deeply about a negative relationship with another empire, regardless of the politics). So you might have a Militarist planet & a Pacifist planet, each of which is going to have strong feelings about wartime. A Spiritualist planet might not be the best place to put Researchers, while a Materialist planet might be a substantial drain on your Unity.
  • Disagree with this. The characters of Stellaris are species & empires, not individuals (which is why the fact that everything is tracked through pops is so ironically at odds with the overall game feel).
 
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Ryika

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Exploration is one of the reasons why I believe that segregating the map into "Galactic Clusters" would be a better concept for Stellaris II than jumping between individual solar systems.

It essentially gives you an entire "invisible" layer that you can stuff with secrets that become apparent over the course of the game - you can claim the cluster, and then you can spend the entire game exploring it, adding more resources, potentially habitable planets, anomalies etc. as you go. Some might even be so useful, that they change the strategic significance of the Cluster.
 
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Liggi

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If Stellaris 2 ends up with logistical pop growth, I'm not going to buy it no matter how improved every other system might be. As to your points,

  • Check out this mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2479774068). It adds a pair of structures that allows you to add additional stars to the galaxy map, allowing for effectively infinite exploration. It also allows for merging of broken sectors, which may be one of my favourite features of any mod ever (can we please just get Planetary Governors for larger worlds? Like if a planet has 30 pops but isn't in a sector, I should be able to assign a governor regardless. A Mayor of New York type of situation).
  • This would be great, however I'm not sure exactly what you're driving at. Do you mean event chains which intertwine, with there simply being so many combinations that you'll never encounter the same pairing twice? Or do you mean a fully procedural history, ala Dwarf Fortress? Or do you mean a set of linear storylines as we have now, but presented in a modular way ala Hades?
  • Totally agree with this. Ethics need an overhaul, not to add more but to make empires the focus rather than pops. One change I'd make tomorrow would be to take ethics off pops, and instead track ethics by planet. However I'd also add in some non-ethics political perspectives, such as Nationalism (doesn't care how the empire is run, just cares that it's this empire), Colonialism (the goal of the people here is to build a functional society, the shape of that society being less important than its existence), or Antagonism (cares deeply about a negative relationship with another empire, regardless of the politics). So you might have a Militarist planet & a Pacifist planet, each of which is going to have strong feelings about wartime. A Spiritualist planet might not be the best place to put Researchers, while a Materialist planet might be a substantial drain on your Unity.
  • Disagree with this. The characters of Stellaris are species & empires, not individuals (which is why the fact that everything is tracked through pops is so ironically at odds with the overall game feel).

I mean something more procedural, I think. Although it's difficult to balance that with quality writing that's compelling and interesting. I'm not exactly sure how Hades works but yeah, maybe there's something in between.

And as for characters, fair enough, I expected a fair amount of disagreement there. But I disagree: species and empires aren't enough. Individuals are always, always, always important and central in sci-fi (although I'm open to counterexamples). Even Stellaris ends up having to have "Leaders", which are essentially just really boring and flat characters that add modifiers. We need to represent important people anyway, let's throw away this nonsense about "Stellaris isn't about individuals" and admit that almost all great sci-fi IS often about individuals and their stories.

EDIT: I mean think about the "characters" we have to already represent in the game! Envoys, leaders of Empires, Generals, Admirals, Scientists (who literally get called by name in some event chains), the Great Khan, individual characters within some event chains. We already have to represent characters in the game, why don't we at least try to make them interesting?
 
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Janx14

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Have you read any of the event chains?

Yes and they're all empire-level decisions or the people of said empire, their race being largely irrelevant. Even the ethics based choices are about empire ethics, not pop ethics.

Very few events care about species and their traits.

The most species based thing I can think of is the compliments/insults empires use.
 

guiskj

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All I want from Stellaris 2 is a consistent vision. To me Stellaris tries to be a superset of 4X, Grand Strategy and Scifi Fantasy. But it can't be everything at once, which is why SO many of its systems are underdeveloped (Ground Warfare, Factions, Terraforming, Exploration beyond the first 50 years, etc.)

I would like for Stellaris to retain the idea of a cross between 4X and Grand Strategy, but I want it to be deliberate about what of those genres it is going to focus on and make it part of the core gameplay loop.

I wouldn't care as much if that vision from PDX becomes something different than mine. I will definitely care if Stellaris 2 again becomes a kitchen sink of ideas and tropes, though. I already spent triple digits on a game where half of it is constantly broken (which half changing from patch to patch). I have no intention of doing that again.
 
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Surimi

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So, this might be controversial, but I'd like to see Stellaris 2 kind of go off in a completely different direction, because I don't think Stellaris 2 is something that should exist to replace Stellaris 1, and I don't think development on Stellaris 1 should end unless it's in a state where it doesn't need to be replaced.

More Simulation
Paradox games tend to run the gamut between the more boardgame/classic strategy game esque push-button approach of giving the player a lot of direct control and letting them figure out the puzzle and the more simulationist approach where a lot of mechanics are automated to give the impression of a living world that is outside of the player's complete control. Stellaris currently leans a bit more towards the former than the latter, and a lot of people will like that, but personally I'm really curious to see what a more simulationist space 4x game would look like. The pop system has gradually become more automated, for example, but I'd like to see it automated even more, with the player only giving overall directions rather than having a lot of direct control.

More Characterization
Tying into the above, I feel that one issue with the player in Stellaris having so much direct control over its mechanics is that it constantly draws attention back to the mechanics and away from the human scale. I think there needs to be more emphasis on the use of emergent storytelling techniques to characterize the world in which the game takes place (in a way that is also relevant to mechanics, but not purely mechanical). Leaders are a good example. Theme-wise, you've got like maybe a couple of dozen people who are the leading figures in an empire of billions. They should be these huge larger than life characters whose exploits and careers will become part of the history of this galaxy. At the very least, give each one a bio listing their most notable achievements. Describe what their background and personality is like. Give them an RPG-esque skill tree which lets them specialize as they develop experience (with their background and personality perhaps opening new options). Give them medals and awards as they level up and improve. Have events describing their state funerals when they die and have them tracked in a special memorial screen.

But characterization doesn't just have to be for people. When I colonize a planet, I want to get a sense of what it's like to live there and how that's different from living anywhere else. This could mean giving planets more variables beyond just an abstract "type", so we know a bit more about them, adding in more interconnectivity between existing variables (for example, smaller planets should have lower gravity), or even having planets semi-randomly generate a "history" for themselves which affects them in various ways and which the player can then discover. To carry this over into fleets, let each empire field a few experimental or veteran ships which have some extra flavour and add little bonuses to the fleet they're part of, but also incentivize keeping them alive, or let fleets unlock special battle honours or reputations which help to specialize and theme them.

More Diverse Empires "Types" / Less Clear Universal Meta
In Stellaris, most empires play quite similarly, albeit with a unique set of strengths and weaknesses in particular areas. This is great in ensuring the player has a consistent experience and always knows what to do, but it's not so great for narrative because it makes empires feel samey, and it creates a relatively clear and obvious meta.

Pop growth is a good example. It's currently one of the most important stats in Stellaris and having more pops is almost always a good thing. But imagine if that wasn't true. After all, these are futuristic societies where people may not really be interested in reproducing all that much, but maybe as a result the children they do produce are really well educated and given a huge amount of investment, so you end up with a technologically advanced society with a relatively small population but which excels at intellectual pursuits and uses automation to get the most out of its population.

The ideal outcome is that you would end up with a situation where different empires are guided towards pursuing very different playstyles in order to do the thing they excel at. That low population empire might be really dependent on science, for example, because it needs the latest technology to make its small population efficient enough to keep up with growing empires. An authoritarian empire might end up with a huge, bloated population of workers or slaves who contribute little individually because they're an unskilled and impoverished underclass, so the empire needs to keep expanding and growing to avoid falling behind.

More Economy
This sort of ties in with a few of the points made above, particularly the point about characterization. One interesting question might be "what are my miners mining." At the moment, they mine generic minerals, but that's not a particularly satisfying answer. I feel that Stellaris (of all the other Paradox titles) would benefit hugely from a more complex economic simulation, similar to that of Victoria 2. There are so many science-fiction resources and commodities which an empire could produce, and having them makes a lot of other areas more interesting. Planets become more important and unique, for example, because now they might have different resource deposits that you may or may not need.

A deeper economy could also provide a counter to the current principle that tech is king in Stellaris. Maybe the aforementioned low pop high tech empire with huge efficiency needs all these high tech goods and resources to keep the economy going, which means needing to find or import rare resources, while the authoritarians with the huge slave/worker population just need to keep everyone basically fed and have less need to build or import high tech commodities. That's kind of a extrapolation on what already happens, but with more specialized resources it could become challenging enough to source them all that being technologically advanced becomes a choice rather than a necessity. After all, you could just build a lot of low tech ships.
 
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Bezborg

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I want more automation.

Some people want more CK in this... I want more HOI in this. Specifically a way to automate fleets and fronts, with giving objectives.

I want far more vast and multi-layered fleets, with far less capability to zip around the galaxy in one blob, and possibly attached to theatres or sectors (in themselves much more vast).

Tbh I want a much larger scale of galactic empire management, not looking where my scientist pop is working on one tiny planet.
 
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SaintD

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More Economy
This sort of ties in with a few of the points made above, particularly the point about characterization. One interesting question might be "what are my miners mining." At the moment, they mine generic minerals, but that's not a particularly satisfying answer. I feel that Stellaris (of all the other Paradox titles) would benefit hugely from a more complex economic simulation, similar to that of Victoria 2. There are so many science-fiction resources and commodities which an empire could produce, and having them makes a lot of other areas more interesting. Planets become more important and unique, for example, because now they might have different resource deposits that you may or may not need.

A deeper economy could also provide a counter to the current principle that tech is king in Stellaris. Maybe the aforementioned low pop high tech empire with huge efficiency needs all these high tech goods and resources to keep the economy going, which means needing to find or import rare resources, while the authoritarians with the huge slave/worker population just need to keep everyone basically fed and have less need to build or import high tech commodities. That's kind of a extrapolation on what already happens, but with more specialized resources it could become challenging enough to source them all that being technologically advanced becomes a choice rather than a necessity. After all, you could just build a lot of low tech ships.

Mostly the idea behind this; I want more Empire Building, and less In The Grim Darkness Of The Far Future There Is Only War.

I want war to be less existential. We need a better casus belli system where the reason for the war is strictly defined and conflicts are extremely purposeful. It should be extremely difficult and highly exceptional to experience the Dominion War (Star Trek), the Minbari War, Centauri/Narn War, or Shadow War (Babylon 5), or the Galactic War (Star Wars). Military conflict is something we should be looking at as a way to seize vital trade lanes, strategic resources, and frontier worlds. Ground combat over a major urbanized world should take years, be utterly gruelling, and the loss of such major lynchpin worlds should end a war, or collapse an entire front. Or you exterminatus the damn thing out of your way and everyone else declares an intervention war on your utterly psychopathic ass as if someone just started flinging nukes around today.

I want a game where we completely lose our bloodlust for total, existential war against a peer opponent because it's incredibly stupid to try and push through with that in an interstellar setting without something making the conflict a ridiculous mismatch. I want to spend centuries fighting the Batarians over control of the Terminus, both sides constantly trying to gain local advantages and a workable casus belli to seize what they want without everyone else getting too pissy and intervening. And then, when I win, and I'm the undisputed master of the region? I vassalize the Batarians. I don't obliterate them. Because that's nuts.

Stellaris is a ****ing hellscape of a setting. It gives no real impression of societies and frontiers and border wars.....it's 40k existential carnage., which is why its identity is basically.....just memes based around 40k catchphrases and attitudes.
 
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Mastikator

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Pops as a number rather than pops as individual units. It's probably not worth doing for Stellaris since it would take a rebuild of the game, however in Stellaris 2 that's what's going to be done anyway.
Buildings/districts should be more limited and grant planet wide bonuses from pop production with diminishing returns. I'd probably just combine districts and buildings into a single thing. Planet resources could count as free buildings, some of them with blockers and/or locked behind tech.

Actually apply that to ships too. (take Master of Orion 1 from 1995 as inspiration)

And armies. Do it to armies too.

Also an army designer, pick whether your troops should have power armor, stealth suit or jetpack, pick between ballistic, energy and missile launcher.

And have actual religion in game, not some flavor text attached to various civics but as an actual game mechanic that can apply benefit to the owner of the religion.
 
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Jamaican Castle

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What I'd most like to see is stronger, more fleshed-out diplomacy. Things like forming temporary coalitions, sending diplomatic or aid missions, inciting two rivals to war (or peace), proxy conflicts, propaganda wars... there's so much more you could be doing in the international realm.

I'd also like a more in-depth resource system, one that isn't so focused on one resource for each role, but rather looks at the effects of focusing on each resource and using them in different situations. Maybe I've made a decision to focus my development on exotic crystals, which unlocks options and resources that other empires don't have, giving me different strengths and weaknesses compared to a neighbor that's focused their understanding on alloys. Maybe the fact that my devouring swarm runs on xenos meat makes it distinct - in terms of resources and effects of resources - from a hive mind that sustains itself on sunlight and nectar.

Are species really the characters of stellaris? I can see empires, but species largely mean nothing past early years.
Underutilized characters to be sure, but I think species should be more central to the game. I'd love the ability to foster different cultures among my pops, let them grow and change from interacting with other species, and focus their internal development along new, possibly unexpected paths. And I'd love a genemodding system that wasn't fundamentally broken.

Leaders on the other hand feel like they were added because they felt like they needed characters, without much consideration for what they would actually do, and so we get a bunch of shallow mechanics without much meaning. (Would it really hurt anything if they removed governors and folded their effects into planet/sector specializations, for instance?) I wouldn't be disappointed if they were simply given the axe in Stellaris 2 in favor of other, more interesting parts of the game.
 
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unmerged(350868)

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Id rather see Stellaris 1 devloped and upgraded than a sequel, to be honest. There is so much content (with more to come) that I cant see how a vanilla Stellaris 2 will be more fun than what we have got. Surely any improvements to the mechanics can be made within the current framework?

Its like with each new edition of Civ felt like a feature strip. I would love to be proved wrong though, although I only just started playing Stellaris, so maybe I am less tired of it than those who have been around from the start.

The "characterisation" is an interestng one.I am not sure that having superhero characters is the way to go, as each character is a footnote in the history of your empire. When you have fleets of 100s of ships, it seems unlikely a single guy is going to make a huge amopunt of sifference, but I guess you could have the occasional genius who comes along to most certain areas of your empire. I guess the difficulty is making this balanced in game. Perhaps it could work at the top of the empire level to create a potential mini crisis, where one charasmatic leader could form federation which becomes a threat (For good or ill). I am all for additional story telling elements, but I guess it needs to be dynamic enough to fit in with an ever changing galaxy.
 
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Bezborg

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Its like with each new edition of Civ felt like a feature strip. I would love to be proved wrong though, although I only just started playing Stellaris, so maybe I am less tired of it than those who have been around from the start.
No need to look outside of Paradox's portfolio for examples of a sequel feature strip. Look at CK3. I can't even play it without Republics... like an animal...

I agree with you fully, this game deserves refinement and upgrading.
 

thinkcrazyhorse

Corporal
Sep 18, 2021
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I don't know whether this is too difficult for the devs to achieve, when one takes time, resources and return on investment into account, but...

I'd like to see the graphical representation of planets in systems being integrated with district and building construction, features and land warfare.

Essentially simulate a planet, which you can zoom into (a bit like Google Earth) and look at the districts and features, and also scope out drop-zones for armies or create defensive positions, etc.

Don't go overboard, because I doubt there are many people who want to micro-manage every planet down to the smallest city, but it would help with immersion.


Also, when it comes to scaling, systems seem a bit odd, because the stars, planets, moons, etc, aren't to scale and obviously the ships aren't to scale either. It's impractical to create a system with 100% fidelity, but the devs could definitely 'cheat' to make it seem larger. To help with this, I'd have the overall 'system view' which would be to 'scale' and where ships would be represented as 'radar pings'. But then the overall 'system view' would be split into 'system sub sectors' and when you zoomed in on them, you could see your ships properly. Battles would be fought in these 'sub sectors'....if that makes sense.

It all adds to a consistent sense of scaling and furthers immersion.
 
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thinkcrazyhorse

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Sep 18, 2021
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Also, I'm not too sure what the point of having 'Influence' is.

Everything it's suppose to represent is more or less featured in other aspects of the game.

Your empire's opinion, other empire's opinion of you, pop happiness, factions, admin capacity, envoys...there are probably other things as well.

And anything that isn't included, create it in a more realistic way.

I feel that 'Influence' has been added to balance the game in certain areas, but for me it breaks immersion.

By all means, make the game more difficult, etc, but just make it realistic.
 
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EpicCanadian

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Also, I'm not too sure what the point of having 'Influence' is.

Everything it's suppose to represent is more or less featured in other aspects of the game.

Your empire's opinion, other empire's opinion of you, pop happiness, factions, admin capacity, envoys...there are probably other things as well.

And anything that isn't included, create it in a more realistic way.

I feel that 'Influence' has been added to balance the game in certain areas, but for me it breaks immersion.

By all means, make the game more difficult, etc, but just make it realistic.

Influence is definitely the most "mana" like part of Stellaris which is why I hate it so much.
 
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