A few Questions on weak claims, claiming the throne, etc.

[Kinkness]

Note: Sorry if some of these questions are answered fully in other posts. I have quite a busy week ahead of me, including today and the next 3 days, I really only have time to type this quick, and check on it periodically.

I've always been heavy into Medieval age history, etc. I'm by no means a "pro" at knowing how everything worked despite my love for it, but that has not stopped me from loving it none the less. I also have some royal blood in me myself, and I've been able to find my family in this game, and is more fun than you can imagine playing as them. At least for the start of them.

I also know how the Medieval Hierarchy worked, however, this game takes it to a whole new level for me. With bridges, paths, and "rules" I never knew existed, and its quite overwhelming.

Question 1: Weak Claims.

Whats the point? >.<;; I've noticed weak claims, and it says I can declare war because my courtisier or Vassal has a claim on a piece of land, but when I win the war, nothing happens. Either they leave my court, or the vassal is no longer my vassal.. Maybe I'm missing something, but no war I've fought for a weak claim from someone under my control has ever gained me land. So my question is, is there a point to it? Or can it lead to something?

Question 2: Claiming a throne

In my current game I want to attempt to claim the throne of England, or at least a county, or -something- from England, and try to claim the land either bit by bit, or by taking the throne as a whole. I'm just not sure how to do this..

It seems like when I marry a prince, or princess, and using the matrilineal option for the appropriate marriage. (If the girl is of my Dynasty), their kids still dont have strong claim to the throne, and are not in the top 3. Am I missing something?

Question 3: Queen of Aragon, With a Matrilineal Marriage.. but no control....

As the Question states... I'm the Queen of Aragon, I married the King before he was King in a Matrilineal marriage. He then become King of Aragon, and I became Queen.. However I have no control over Aragon.. ? I suppose its because he's the leader? But doesnt that mean our kids should then be heir? Why did another take it?

 

[Alyiakal]

1. If you are pushing a claim that is not your own, in order to have vassalage and therefore control of the claimant after the war is over, you need to already have them as your landed vassal. The exceptions to this is if they are of your dynasty, or if the land being claimed is a de jure vassal of one of your titles.

Also, you obviously can't vassalize a rank that is equal or greater than your own.

2. There are a few ways to go about claiming a throne (kingdom). It's really no different from claiming a duchy or a county, except that you can't fabricate a claim on it. If you manage to get your character's heir to also inherit the kingdom peacefully through marriage, that's quite doable. More often then not, this will be tough to do. If you're not an emperor, you will need to get a claim into your main line somehow. Usually this is easiest to do by marrying a princess; her kids will get her weak claim. Once you control a character that holds the weak claim, you need to wait for either a regency, female ruler, or another succession war to break out before you can make your move. If the Pope really likes you and doesn't like the current king, you can also request an invasion if you have enough piety (since you have a claim, you don't need to be smaller).

If you happen to be an emperor, you can use a claimant that you have landed or is of your dynasty to claim the throne. This is usually far easier because there tend to be a ton of those guys running around.

3. The King of Aragon is the actual title holder, you are simply the queen-consort. You don't personally hold the title, so the vassals of Aragon do not answer to you.

As for why your kids didn't inherit, perhaps the succession laws in Aragon are something different. If you've landed your kids and Aragon has high crown authority, titles cannot pass outside the realm either (and that includes the top title).

EDIT: It's also possible that the king has kids from a previous marriage?

 

[Kinkness]

1. If you are pushing a claim that is not your own, in order to have vassalage and therefore control of the claimant after the war is over, you need to already have them as your landed vassal. The exceptions to this is if they are of your dynasty, or if the land being claimed is a de jure vassal of one of your titles.

Ok, so, On the thing it says "push a claim for x person on x county or territory", the person said "Vassal" So he/she is my Vassal. I win the war.. Nothing..

The territory then turned into a seperate province, and that person turned into the leader.

In this case it was for the territory of York and its 3 counties. The person who had a claim to it was my Vassal. Yet it still turned into a seperate country or faction with them as the ruler?? I dont get how this works since he was my Vassal.

 

[Alyiakal]

Are they actually a vassal, or just a courtier in your court? Also, what is your rank? It sounds like you pushed the claim for the Duchy of York, so if you are not a king or higher, then this person, even if they were your vassal, would be of equal to higher rank to you, and as such would no longer be your vassal.

 

[Kinkness]

Are they actually a vassal, or just a courtier in your court? Also, what is your rank? It sounds like you pushed the claim for the Duchy of York, so if you are not a king or higher, then this person, even if they were your vassal, would be of equal to higher rank to you, and as such would no longer be your vassal.

Yes they are my Vassal, or were, I thought marrying them would give me direct rights. hovering over their picture it said "Vassal" in green, not courtier at the time I married them. Also I am the King of Ireland, and Wales, and was pushing for the Duchy of York for this wife of mine. Is that why she went "Rogue" stayed my wife but became the "Queen" of York?

We have a Son, who will Inherit her throne, but not mine.... Its hair pulling I tell ya...

The other Duchy I was pushing for (Forgot the name atm), was the same situation. Was a Vassal of mine, I pushed for the Duchy, and they became the leader of the duchy and was independent and had no liege after I won. =/

There is an option for them to become my vassal in diplomacy right after, but.. they never go for it. Even if we have 100 relationship. Because I have no De Jure, and it also says "Distance" which makes no sense since we have land next to each other, and another option which is always negative. /sigh

 

[Ratlegion]

Even if they are one of your vassals, the only reason they would be your vassal after you pushing your claim is if they are of your dynasty, or you are the de jure liege over the territory. In this case, you would have to King of England, but not control the territory. At that point, because it's supposed to be part of your realm, they will still remain a vassal.

 

[Kinkness]

Even if they are one of your vassals, the only reason they would be your vassal after you pushing your claim is if they are of your dynasty, or you are the de jure liege over the territory. In this case, you would have to King of England, but not control the territory. At that point, because it's supposed to be part of your realm, they will still remain a vassal.

So all in all it is usually pointless to push those claims if the person is just a vassal or Courtier. Since you'll lose them every time.

I have 1 other question I forgot to ask in the original post.

What does it mean when says "X person has created an x faction" ? For instance, just now it says " Celine se Glamgorin as created the Glamgorin for wales faction. What does that mean exactly? I usually ignore these messages since nothing comes out of it.

 

[Ratlegion]

Um, I wouldn't ignore those if I were you because they can serious screw up your game. I'm not the best one to speak on it though, but it's one of the most important new "features" in the game.

EDIT

I can say that if you raise the leader's relation above 80, it will dissolve.

 

[Kinkness]

Um, I wouldn't ignore those if I were you because they can serious screw up your game. I'm not the best one to speak on it though, but it's one of the most important new "features" in the game.

EDIT

I can say that if you raise the leader's relation above 80, it will dissolve.

Nothing has ever come of it though.

 

[Ratlegion]

Good for you.

 

[Kinkness]

So I suppose taking a throne is a long term goal, very long term. Is there anyway to Usurp land quicker in a "short" term goal? I know the term short is still talking years, but, I'm wondering if theres a better way to go about attempting to claim land from England apart from making false claims on a county, going to war, then waiting 12 years for the cease-fire. That takes a VERY long time doing it county by county....

 

[Mods]

So I suppose taking a throne is a long term goal, very long term. Is there anyway to Usurp land quicker in a "short" term goal? I know the term short is still talking years, but, I'm wondering if theres a better way to go about attempting to claim land from England apart from making false claims on a county, going to war, then waiting 12 years for the cease-fire. That takes a VERY long time doing it county by county....

find claimants for duchies, land them and press their claims. Once you have enough land and you've usurped the title you don't have to land your claimants anymore

 

[Kinkness]

find claimants for duchies, land them and press their claims

Which we just got done discussing will do nothing but make them leader of that duchy, and no longer my vassal....

 

[Mods]

Which we just got done discussing will do nothing but make them leader of that duchy, and no longer my vassal....

the part where you land them is important

 

[Kinkness]

the part where you land them is important

Maybe I'm confused. What exactly is "landing" them? Because they either have land, or a city, or a title like countess or baron. Doesnt that mean their landed?

 

[Mods]

Maybe I'm confused. What exactly is "landing" them? Because they either have land, or a city, or a title like countess or baron. Doesnt that mean their landed?

You'll have to check on their character page if they own land in your realm. The problem is that the wife/husband of a landed vassal will also get the title 'baroness' or 'countess' or whatever, they do not count though as it's not them who own the land.

 

[Kinkness]

You'll have to check on their character page if they own land in your realm. The problem is that the wife/husband of a landed vassal will also get the title 'baroness' or 'countess' or whatever, they do not count though as it's not them who own the land.

So let me get this straight..

If say I have a Courtier who has a "weak claim" on a county or duchy. and I give that Courtier guy a piece of land. (Does this land have to be the ENTIRE county? or just a fort/city inside it?), I then push the claim. He'll take the land after a victory and I'll stay his Liege?

 

[Kimberly]

So let me get this straight..

If say I have a Courtier who has a "weak claim" on a county or duchy. and I give that Courtier guy a piece of land. (Does this land have to be the ENTIRE county? or just a fort/city inside it?), I then push the claim. He'll take the land after a victory and I'll stay his Liege?

In a word: yes. Any land will do. Note that he keeps the government type of his holding, so if you push a mayor's claim on a county, he'll become a Lord Mayor of that county.

 

[Kinkness]

In a word: yes. Any land will do. Note that he keeps the government type of his holding, so if you push a mayor's claim on a county, he'll become a Lord Mayor of that county.

Why has this not been working for me? Vassals have to have land to be Vassals, yet they are not staying under my Liege.... I must be doing something wrong.

 

[Ratlegion]

Courtiers are nobodies. They come and go as they please. Most of the time they don't have a reason to move, so you might assume they belong to you, but they don't. Give them a county you own to hire them as a landed employee. Then you push their claim and they will remain your vassal. They won't give up your land to become independent in their new land, they want it all.