A few questions from my first game and browsing the FAQs

[unmerged(137458)]

I'm for the first time laying this game and I'm really, really enjoying it (starting as Duke of Östergötland in 1066 by 1251 I have more or less completely moved to sunny Spain and left the northern darkness to my vassals). I also adore the fact that there is an active community behind it all - still after all these years. This has helped me immensely.

I do however have a few questions that I haven't found answers to around here, if they have, or the answers are that obvious, I apologize:

1) A few province improvements require an "income of 15" according to some sources around the FAQ section (Grand Palace, War Academy, Naval Harbour - all the good stuff). What does this mean? My real income in most provinces is well above this and the base income in all of them is well below. What does "income of 15 mean"?

2) What does the formula for demense size look like? I.e. how does my personal Intrigue score matter? It seems like Int/2 rounded down and that my spymaster's score doesn't matter at all, is this correct? Are there any other modifications that are possible like the century or Bysantion ones?

2b) A related question: Is there any reason to not run your demense at a constant 80% efficiency with Crown Posts in all provinces? Maybe triggers?

3) I've held the county of Västergötland for I don't know how long now, but well over 100 years. I've checked and double-checked and the advances Road Building and Wind Wheel have both spread here, and there is a Road Network already built, but I cannot build neither the Extensive Road Network nor the Wind Mills improvements. When I click the province image their green silhouettes simply don't appear. I have a theory that the province has gotten "stuck" and doesn't update somehow, because I had to manually cheat and remove Dysentery from it after it had been there for maybe 50 years. Since then it hasn't gone from normal to Prosperous or Poor or anything, but Large Castles has spread there and I've been able to build that, which seems very strange indeed. Has this happened to anyone else?

4) Is there some way to manually relocate your capital other that giving away the county and randomly go someplace else? I've gone from Östergötland to Gotland that way but I want to manually move to maybe Valencia or Cordoba.

There, that's all for now. Thank you very much in advance.

 

[truth is life]

1. I'm not sure but I THINK that it's probably referring to the actual income of the province, with modifiers.

2. The demesne size is dependent on three things: Your ruler's intrigue score (unmodified, as you found out), your title (specifically, the level of it--county, duke, king), and your tag (whether or not you're Byzantium). The first two interact in a fairly simple way. The 'normal' size is equal to Int/2, as you found; this applies for duchies. Kings get 2x this (so their max is just Int), while counts get 1/2. If you're Byzantium, you get an extra 2x bonus, allowing your demesne to be up to 2xInt.

2b. Yes, bad events trigger more often with lower efficiencies. Also, you can get an heir with low intrigue, and suddenly 80% becomes 40% or less (and then bad events REALLY start happening) Finally, if you have really good intrigue rulers (like my crusader Piasts in one game I have), you may simply not want the hassle of controlling 20+ provinces (or doing so might conflict with your house rules or what not) I usually top out at 10-12. (though I might grab more as Byzantium)

3. Certain terrains cannot build certain improvements. For example, only provinces with forests or hills can build sawmills. I believe extensive road networks can only be build in plains and hills provinces, so that's probably your problem.

4. I don't believe that you can, sorry.

 

[Wezqu]

3) I've held the county of Västergötland for I don't know how long now, but well over 100 years. I've checked and double-checked and the advances Road Building and Wind Wheel have both spread here, and there is a Road Network already built, but I cannot build neither the Extensive Road Network nor the Wind Mills improvements. When I click the province image their green silhouettes simply don't appear. I have a theory that the province has gotten "stuck" and doesn't update somehow, because I had to manually cheat and remove Dysentery from it after it had been there for maybe 50 years. Since then it hasn't gone from normal to Prosperous or Poor or anything, but Large Castles has spread there and I've been able to build that, which seems very strange indeed. Has this happened to anyone else?

You can't build everything in every province. For example you can't build sawmill to province that doesn't have forests (like deserts, marches, mountains or plains) and can't build harbors or fisherman wharfs to provinces that doesn't have a sea connection. Also on roads if the province has deserts, marches, mountains or forests you can't build the Extensive Road Network as back then it was not possible to do so in such places. Windmills you can't build on mountain or forest provinces.

You can see the requirements for the buildings in provinceimprovements.txt file in db folder in the main Crusader Kings folder.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

2) What does the formula for demense size look like? I.e. how does my personal Intrigue score matter? It seems like Int/2 rounded down and that my spymaster's score doesn't matter at all, is this correct? Are there any other modifications that are possible like the century or Bysantion ones?

If you hover the cursor over the gold at the top-right of the screen, it should show how many provinces your ruler can handle. It includes the multipliers for duke/king and the bonus for later centuries.

Also, i think your capital is moved to the province with the highest income in the area where you have your primary title. So if it's Duke of Östergötland, your capital will probably be there. But if you manage a king title, i think the capital would move to the highest income province you have in that kingdom.

 

[unmerged(137458)]

1. I'm not sure but I THINK that it's probably referring to the actual income of the province, with modifiers.

2. The demesne size is dependent on three things: Your ruler's intrigue score (unmodified, as you found out), your title (specifically, the level of it--county, duke, king), and your tag (whether or not you're Byzantium). The first two interact in a fairly simple way. The 'normal' size is equal to Int/2, as you found; this applies for duchies. Kings get 2x this (so their max is just Int), while counts get 1/2. If you're Byzantium, you get an extra 2x bonus, allowing your demesne to be up to 2xInt.

2b. Yes, bad events trigger more often with lower efficiencies. Also, you can get an heir with low intrigue, and suddenly 80% becomes 40% or less (and then bad events REALLY start happening) Finally, if you have really good intrigue rulers (like my crusader Piasts in one game I have), you may simply not want the hassle of controlling 20+ provinces (or doing so might conflict with your house rules or what not) I usually top out at 10-12. (though I might grab more as Byzantium)

3. Certain terrains cannot build certain improvements. For example, only provinces with forests or hills can build sawmills. I believe extensive road networks can only be build in plains and hills provinces, so that's probably your problem.

4. I don't believe that you can, sorry.

Thank you for your reply .

1. No, that's definately not it as I have >15 income in almost every province but only Cordoba, Novogrod, Roma, Byzantion, Palermo and Firenze that can have a Grand Palace, for example (yes I have some sweet spots). Of these Palermo has the lowest base income of 5.10 with max loyalty and 50/30/10/10 taxes.

2. Your math is a little off it seems. I have a personal Int of 12 but can control 14 provinces. I am king and the year is 1253.

2b. As I suspected

3. Yes, that's exactly it! I didn't think about that at all, thank you!

4.

 

[truth is life]

Your math is a little off it seems. I have a personal Int of 12 but can control 14 provinces. I am king and the year is 1253.

Oh yeah, forgot the 4th factor: What century it is. For every century past the beginning of the game (1100, 1200, and so on) you can control 1 additional demesne province. IIRC this is also multiplied by the kingdom factor, but your numbers seem to contradict that.

No, that's definately not it as I have >15 income in almost every province but only Cordoba, Novogrod, Roma, Byzantion, Palermo and Firenze that can have a Grand Palace, for example (yes I have some sweet spots). Of these Palermo has the lowest base income of 5.10 with max loyalty and 50/30/10/10 taxes.

Well then, I'm not sure. The income map in the FAQ section has only Byzantion, Venice, Alexandria, and Baghdad being that rich base, so obviously it must include *some* modifiers; perhaps base tax plus monthly income buildings (such as mines or glass-works) is the thing?

 

[unmerged(133776)]

2. Your math is a little off it seems. I have a personal Int of 12 but can control 14 provinces. I am king and the year is 1253.(

You get Century bonuses too, you get +1 for being past year 1100, and then +1 for being past year 1200, that fits in with your 14 demesne limit.

Edit: Oops, someone else beat me to it, sorry.

As for the income of 15 gold requirement, from my reading it's the unmodified income level that matters. There's suppose to be a trick allowing you around that, go in and raise all your taxes to max, and the base income will go up, allowing you to build in more provinces. It only needs to be raised long enough to allow the improvements to show up/start building, then lower it back to normal levels.

 

[unmerged(137458)]

You get Century bonuses too, you get +1 for being past year 1100, and then +1 for being past year 1200, that fits in with your 14 demesne limit.

Edit: Oops, someone else beat me to it, sorry.

As for the income of 15 gold requirement, from my reading it's the unmodified income level that matters. There's suppose to be a trick allowing you around that, go in and raise all your taxes to max, and the base income will go up, allowing you to build in more provinces. It only needs to be raised long enough to allow the improvements to show up/start building, then lower it back to normal levels.

I'm actually pretty positive by now that that's not the case, or maybe I'm understanding something wrong. I just started building the largest possible shipyard in Byzantion, with a base income of 13.04.

EDIT: Sorry, 13.01.

 

[truth is life]

But the "actual" base income (if you had all taxes maxed) of Byzantion is 20. (It's the most valuable province in the game, I believe). And I'm pretty sure it's being based off of *that*, not your actual income less stewardship/building/etc. modifiers.

 

[Nick B II]

Thank you for your reply .

1. No, that's definately not it as I have >15 income in almost every province but only Cordoba, Novogrod, Roma, Byzantion, Palermo and Firenze that can have a Grand Palace, for example (yes I have some sweet spots). Of these Palermo has the lowest base income of 5.10 with max loyalty and 50/30/10/10 taxes.

IIRC it's 15 income before counting things like mines.

I do know that whenever I have a province with 15 income I can build that stuff.

If your primary title is King of Sweden the only way to have a capital anywhere else is give all your Swedish provinces away. If you want it in Spain you'll probably have to give all your Swedish-culture provinces away too, and the richest provinces you have outside Spain.

Nick

 

[unmerged(137458)]

But the "actual" base income (if you had all taxes maxed) of Byzantion is 20. (It's the most valuable province in the game, I believe). And I'm pretty sure it's being based off of *that*, not your actual income less stewardship/building/etc. modifiers.

Yes and it if it's based on that figure only Byzantion (20), Venezia (18), Bhagdad (16) and Alexandria (15) would be able to build these improvements, which is not the case. So that is decidedly not it.

EDIT: An update on the problem, which makes it all the more mysterious: In Valencia I have a War Academy but no Grand Palace, which I cannot build. In Cordoba I have a Grand Palace and just became able to build a War Academy, making no changes in taxation or loyalty whatsoever and neither of them being close to 15 in base income (and yes, I've had the Training Academy all along, so that's not the thing).

 

[unmerged(137458)]

Here are the script snippets for each improvement from /db/provinceimprovements.txt

Grand Palace:

grand_palace =
{
	cost = { gold = 1500 prestige = 0 piety = 0 }
	construction_time = 120
	minimum_income = 15

	onetime_bonus = { prestige = 200 }

	lasting_effects =
	{
		demesne = 0.3
		periodic_loyalty = { nobles = 0.002 }
		percentage_score = { gold = 0.95 }
		periodic_score = { prestige = 1 }
	        supportable = 500
		pillage_score = { gold = 10 }
	}
	additional_return_on_investment = 0.05 #demesne bonus
}

and War Academy:

waracademy =
{
	cost = { gold = 400 prestige = 0 piety = 0 }
	construction_time = 30

	required_province_improvements = { traininggrounds = yes }
	minimum_income = 15

	lasting_effects =
	{
		speed = 1.1
	        percentage_score = { gold = 0.95 }
		periodic_score = { prestige = 1 }
	        supportable = 200
		pillage_score = { gold = 3 }
	}
	additional_return_on_investment = 0.05 #early game recruitment imperative
}

 

[truth is life]

Well then, I am totally mystified.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

Something seems to be buggy with the building restrictions in the beta patches. Look here.

 

[unmerged(137458)]

Something seems to be buggy with the building restrictions in the beta patches. Look here.

Thank you

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

There is some kind of strange thing going on the income-restrictions for certain buildings. It doesn't work the way most people think it should work.

What exactly is wrong with it, nobody knows yet.

 

[unmerged(137458)]

Oh yeah, forgot the 4th factor: What century it is. For every century past the beginning of the game (1100, 1200, and so on) you can control 1 additional demesne province. IIRC this is also multiplied by the kingdom factor, but your numbers seem to contradict that.

You are right, the century bonus is multiplied for kings, it just seems that every century doesn't have a bonus! Earlier in the 13th century when I mouseovered (is that a word?) it said "Century bonus: +1" which I just assumed was a display bug, because my demense size fitted with the formula Int*2+current century (2 for 1200s etc). However, when the 14th century rolled around the modifier in the tooltip became +3, and I was allowed 4 more provinces! So the formula, just like you thought, is (Int+century mod)*2. The century modifier simply doesn't change every century.