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EndlessWaves

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I haven't used steam for a while. I was in at the start with the steam beta but the way it was being run put me off and a few years ago I gave up on it entirely. However, EU3 was one of my favourite games and it was rather a surprise to discover EUIV was steam only. I'm wondering if it's changed, in particular the following things I found unprofessional/unacceptable/just plain annoying:

1. The commercialism. Buy a steamworks game from gamersgate and the steam client it installed would have steam's own store built in, and adverts for it. I'm surprised they didn't get brought up before the monopolies commission for that sort of anti-competitive behaviour, but it wasn't that long after GamersGate, Impulse etc. had agreed to sell steam games so I'm guessing that's gone now. What's the situation with the advertising though? Maybe it was something to do with my beta account but steam started showing adverts, and you couldn't disable them without also turning off game update news and other features. Is it now possible to just shut off the adverts, assuming they're there if you don't buy a game from the steam store of course.

2. The updating. They used to be mandatory which would play havoc with mod compatibility, and several times meant that when I was expecting to settle down to a relaxing night with a game I'd suddenly be told I couldn't play it for the next three hours because it was updating. This was separate from the automatic updates function which just determined whether it updated in the background (which it would do whether or not the internet was already in use) or when you came to launch the game. This is more of an annoyance and a valid decision for the developer to take, but does anyone know if EUIV updates are going to be optional (at least for a couple of weeks after release)?

3. Startup and shutdown. As steam obviously wasn't trustworthy enough to run it in the background (see updates) I had it set to run with the game. Or at least, start up with the game. It never seemed to close itself with the game even after trying it on several computers, which rather defaults the point of not having it run in the background in the first place. Also, the startup and login process was extraordinarily long. Whereas most DRM takes 5 seconds to authenticate steam was taking 20-30 seconds - often doubling the startup time of a game. Does it now work as smoothly and discretely as normal DRM during standard sessions of a game?

4. Interaction with other games. In particular games with steam multiplayer used to share a common username and friends list. As you can imagine this lead to several impossible situations, a name appropriate for a dark brooding game like Killing Floor is hardly appropriate for a more abstract game like EUIV. I'd normally use friends lists to keep track of associates (people to arrange games with etc.) with only actual friends being on all of them, with steam you had no choice but to have everyone in every game and I had to resort to bits of paper to keep track of all the names. Are there now per-game name settings and friend list categories?

I was going to check this myself of course, but I don't remember my account details and steam support apparently requires you to register for a support account so I thought I'd ask here instead. Can anyone update me on the current state of steam, I'm hoping they've changed quite a bit as paradox always used to be keen on minimal DRM systems (of which the steam I knew was quite the opposite).
 

Wuddel

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1. the store is still in there. Steam is also the de facto standard for PC-games. EA has a similar system called Origin. So they are not a monopoly in PC gameing. Besides PC gaming is only small compared to consoles, so it seems unlikely that they get in trouble for that.
2. there is a per game option to keep it updated or not, which is probably only an issue together with mods or you are connected to the internet by a string attached to a plastic cup
3. due to 2. there is little reason not to run it in the background
4. per-game name settings do defeat the purpose of havinging a unified friends list in the first place, so no
 

trcanberra

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I know it is a lot more stable and less resource intensive than it used to be. I find ads still pop up but I close the window with one click so it doesn't really bother me. I know you can pause updates but not sure if you can turn them off - I'm not into mods so that is not an issue for me. Hmm - I'm not much help - I also don't play multiplayer much so can't even comment on user names - sorry :blush:

It's kind of funny - it used to be common to hate Steam - now it seems more common to love it and deride anyone who has doubts. Personally I find it takes way too long to start up sometimes, especially in their sales periods - but otherwise I hardly notice it.

Of course - since I want to play EUIV, in a way it doesn't matter how I feel about it - it's their way or the highway.
 

BobbyDylan

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I know it is a lot more stable and less resource intensive than it used to be. I find ads still pop up but I close the window with one click so it doesn't really bother me. I know you can pause updates but not sure if you can turn them off - I'm not into mods so that is not an issue for me. Hmm - I'm not much help - I also don't play multiplayer much so can't even comment on user names - sorry :blush:

It's kind of funny - it used to be common to hate Steam - now it seems more common to love it and deride anyone who has doubts. Personally I find it takes way too long to start up sometimes, especially in their sales periods - but otherwise I hardly notice it.

Of course - since I want to play EUIV, in a way it doesn't matter how I feel about it - it's their way or the highway.


I bought HL2 back when steam launched, and was shocked that a game REQUIRED an online connection. Steam was slow as shit, too, and the user interface sucked. I hated it, and loathed steam for years.

But in 2008 I started using it again when Empire TW became a steamworks game. And I have to say, since then, I've grown to love it. Steam is now my preferred vendor, in fact, I often buy games on sale on steam that I already own boxed copies of, just so I can chuck the boxes and save the space.
 

Wuddel

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trcanberra;15927319It's kind of funny - it used to be common to hate Steam - now it seems more common to love it and deride anyone who has doubts.[/QUOTE said:
This is because it is accepted now that games have DRM, and most other DRM systems are terrible compared to Steam. Also it is way easier to tolerate some DRM when you bought the game 75% off.

BTW I want to mention, when you install the mods via Steam Workshop they will get auto-updated as well.
 

Katarian

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2. there is a per game option to keep it updated or not, which is probably only an issue together with mods or you are connected to the internet by a string attached to a plastic cup

AFAIK that setting in Steam only means the game won't automatically update when you start Steam up. When you try to actually run a game which has been set to not update automatically Steam will try to update the game. I think the only way to stop a game from updating is running Steam in offline mode, or if the game allows it running it directly from the .exe and bypassing Steam starting up. As a player it's one of the biggest pains in the arse with Steam, but for a developer I can see the big advantage is that everyone is playing the same version of the game which makes technical support easier.
 

Thanik

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AFAIK that setting in Steam only means the game won't automatically update when you start Steam up. When you try to actually run a game which has been set to not update automatically Steam will try to update the game. I think the only way to stop a game from updating is running Steam in offline mode, or if the game allows it running it directly from the .exe and bypassing Steam starting up. As a player it's one of the biggest pains in the arse with Steam, but for a developer I can see the big advantage is that everyone is playing the same version of the game which makes technical support easier.

You can run game without steam.
And you can copy game files to another folder , and have older version of game if you want:)
 

Nyrael

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BTW I want to mention, when you install the mods via Steam Workshop they will get auto-updated as well.

Thats one of the good things about the Workshop: when a new version of the mod is up in the Workshop, Steam updates it.
 

EndlessWaves

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Thanks for the answers. Unfortunately it sounds like it hasn't improved much.

So they are not a monopoly in PC gameing. Besides PC gaming is only small compared to consoles, so it seems unlikely that they get in trouble for that.

I mean that if a game is released using steamworks you install the steam client regardless of where you buy it from. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if it technically qualifies as a monopoly in this sense but it does seem rather an abuse of the situation for steam to push their store through games bought from their rivals.

or if the game allows it running it directly from the .exe and bypassing Steam starting up.

Do you know if EUIV will allow that? I guess I lose access to steam functions? The achievements I'm not worried about and I only had one gaming computer and like to tinker so cloud save won't be used anyway. What about multiplayer? I'm guessing matches are pre-organised and don't use the steam server browser but I haven't been keeping up with the dev diaries.

I wonder if the demo would be representative of that or whether they'll have increased the security as it's open to anyone. Worth trying to get my old account up and running again for a look I guess.

EDIT: Looks like the demo can launch without steam, worth considering then.
 
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