A few notes on the trade system. Why don't we have trade routes?
I would like to start by saying that the current system is playable and in some ways interesting. That said, most of us seem to think that it could be more enjoyable and... flexible.
With WoN well under way, I don't suppose any extreme suggestions could be adopted. PI has already stated that it will not be a major overhaul but rather something to make the current system more important. Still I'd like to talk about how it could be improved.
I'm clearly not the cleverest person on the forum, so would be glad if someone told me why my suggestions are stupid and impossible to implement =)
My biggest problem is that the direction the trade flows is fixed and there is no way to change that. As a result, some nations are favored over the others. It seems that the only reason Antwerpen is an end node are the Netherlands. But there are no Netherlands in 1444, aren't there? And I think there is no reason Hansa could not become something like Netherlands (in the hands of a human player, of course). Or Novgorod, for that matter, if it does not get swallowed by Muscovy.
And there is that American and Indian/Chinese trade. The set up does not favor Iberian countries so much any more, but now there is that Western Europe trade node, and that means that you don't have to venture on the costly business of setting up colonies, you just need to send more ships to that nod. That does seem a bit odd as the colonial nations were restricted to trade only with their overlord. Smuggling, however severe, could have amounted only to a fraction of all the colonial trade.
We are getting to the point. As it has already been mentioned, trade routes are not ever-present like ocean current. So why don't make them dynamic?
Why cannot we have a route between (technically) any node and any other node?
Let me explain what I mean.
How did trade work? If we put it simply (and if I am not mistaken), goods from some area are gatherd in a kind of hub (port, trading city). Traders then would go to this place (trade nod?) to buy those goods there. Then they would take them to their base (let it be only their base), from where those goods would be sold to other places.
What do you need to do that? You need
1) ability to buy (good relations to the country or just owning it)
2) ability to transfer goods (necessary naval technology, knowledge of the area, naval bases, good relationships to the countries owning important trading hubs)
3) people to do the job
How do I imagine that? In order to establish a trade route, you need first of all to have good relationships with a country you are trading with. You will get to transfer their trade power and give them a share of profit in return. There is room for some nice scheming/diplomacy between trading nations to get concessions. Or you can just conquer/protectorate the buggers, and get all of their trade.
Then you need to be able to move all those goods to your (trade?) capital. Whether you can do it or not, depends on your diplomatic technology, ideas, navy tradition. Having provinces (bases) or fleet basing rights along the route also helps.
And then you may need to spend a trader to establish that route.
Trading companies could help with this, may be by gathering all the trade value in one place, and then sending it to mother county, using fewer merchants.
That way it would matter much less where exactly on the world map you are situated, you still can lead your trading nation to prosperity, which would be challenging, but interesting to do.
I understand that it is much more complicated and difficult to implement. I am not sure if it is possible to implement at all. I also suppose it can be flawed.
Still it would be so nice to have something like this.
I would like to start by saying that the current system is playable and in some ways interesting. That said, most of us seem to think that it could be more enjoyable and... flexible.
With WoN well under way, I don't suppose any extreme suggestions could be adopted. PI has already stated that it will not be a major overhaul but rather something to make the current system more important. Still I'd like to talk about how it could be improved.
I'm clearly not the cleverest person on the forum, so would be glad if someone told me why my suggestions are stupid and impossible to implement =)
My biggest problem is that the direction the trade flows is fixed and there is no way to change that. As a result, some nations are favored over the others. It seems that the only reason Antwerpen is an end node are the Netherlands. But there are no Netherlands in 1444, aren't there? And I think there is no reason Hansa could not become something like Netherlands (in the hands of a human player, of course). Or Novgorod, for that matter, if it does not get swallowed by Muscovy.
And there is that American and Indian/Chinese trade. The set up does not favor Iberian countries so much any more, but now there is that Western Europe trade node, and that means that you don't have to venture on the costly business of setting up colonies, you just need to send more ships to that nod. That does seem a bit odd as the colonial nations were restricted to trade only with their overlord. Smuggling, however severe, could have amounted only to a fraction of all the colonial trade.
We are getting to the point. As it has already been mentioned, trade routes are not ever-present like ocean current. So why don't make them dynamic?
Why cannot we have a route between (technically) any node and any other node?
Let me explain what I mean.
How did trade work? If we put it simply (and if I am not mistaken), goods from some area are gatherd in a kind of hub (port, trading city). Traders then would go to this place (trade nod?) to buy those goods there. Then they would take them to their base (let it be only their base), from where those goods would be sold to other places.
What do you need to do that? You need
1) ability to buy (good relations to the country or just owning it)
2) ability to transfer goods (necessary naval technology, knowledge of the area, naval bases, good relationships to the countries owning important trading hubs)
3) people to do the job
How do I imagine that? In order to establish a trade route, you need first of all to have good relationships with a country you are trading with. You will get to transfer their trade power and give them a share of profit in return. There is room for some nice scheming/diplomacy between trading nations to get concessions. Or you can just conquer/protectorate the buggers, and get all of their trade.
Then you need to be able to move all those goods to your (trade?) capital. Whether you can do it or not, depends on your diplomatic technology, ideas, navy tradition. Having provinces (bases) or fleet basing rights along the route also helps.
And then you may need to spend a trader to establish that route.
Trading companies could help with this, may be by gathering all the trade value in one place, and then sending it to mother county, using fewer merchants.
That way it would matter much less where exactly on the world map you are situated, you still can lead your trading nation to prosperity, which would be challenging, but interesting to do.
I understand that it is much more complicated and difficult to implement. I am not sure if it is possible to implement at all. I also suppose it can be flawed.
Still it would be so nice to have something like this.
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