A few miscellaneous 1.101 suggestions

[Sleight of Hand]

Just a few things I thought I'd mention, if I may.

1. Ralph de Gael was in fact the last earl of East Anglia, not Gyrth Godwinson.

d_norfolk.txt

855.1.8={
	holder = 163064
}
879.1.1={
	holder = 168650
}
1066.1.1={
	liege="k_england"
	holder=132 #Gyrth Godwinsson
}
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]1066.10.14={
	holder=5650 #Radulf 'Stalre'
}
1068.1.1={
	holder=5652 #Radulf 'de Guader'
}
1074.1.1={
	holder = 0
}[/COLOR]

This means that Ralph the Staller and his son will be the last dukes of Norfolk, until their title is revoked after the Revolt of the Earls. This is historical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_East_Anglia#List_of_ealdormen_and_earls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Staller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Guader

2. There is a load of pre-867 title history in d_the_isles.txt; this is surely an error because that title doesn't exist in CK II, and so the history appears for a non-existent titular duchy. The correct title is in fact d_western_isles.txt, though I don't believe the old Gaelic kings of Mann should start with a claim on the entire duchy, so the best solution is to simply delete the contents of d_the_isles.txt and leave the claims limited to c_isle_of_man.txt, which is currently correct.

3. An oft-requested (and modded) title history change is having this guy as king (duke) of Leinster, which he was historically, as well as being a high king of Ireland. His son Domnall begins as king (count) of Dublin, so can quite sensibly be made his father's vassal. These were the guys who aided Harold II's sons after Hastings.

The kingdom of Leinster is currently without title history until 1166, so I think this is a good idea.

For Dublin, we can just move the liege part back to 1052 and remove it in 1166, as well as the duplicate entry for Ascall.

c_dublin.txt (just these sections specifically)

1052.7.1={
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]liege="d_leinster"[/COLOR]
	holder=924
}
1160.7.1={
	holder = 83243 #Ascall son of Ragnall
}
[COLOR="#FF0000"]1166.7.1={
	liege="d_leinster"
}
1166.7.1={
	holder = 83243 #Ascall son of Ragnall
}[/COLOR]

For Leinster, again it's just a case of liege changes.

c_leinster.txt (just these sections specifically)

1042.7.1={
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]liege="d_leinster"[/COLOR]
	holder=922 #Diarmait son of Donnchad
}
[COLOR="#FF0000"]1166.7.1={
	liege="d_leinster"
}[/COLOR]

And for the kingdom of Leinster, we can just add some title history pre-1066.

d_leinster.txt

[COLOR="#FF8C00"]1042.7.1={
	holder=922 #Diarmait son of Donnchad
	law = succ_tanistry
}
1072.2.7={
	holder = 83190 #Domnall son of Murchad
}
1075.7.1={
	holder = 920 #Donnchad son of Domnall Remar
}
1089.7.1={
	holder = 923 #Énna son of Diarmait
}
1092.7.1={
	holder = 83188 #Diarmait son of Énna
}
1098.7.1={
	holder = 6166 #Donnchad son of Murchad
}
1115.7.1={
	holder = 83191 #Diarmait son of Énna
}
1117.7.1={
	holder = 83192 #Énna son of Donnchad
}
1126.7.1={
	holder = 214550 #Diarmait son of Donnchad
}
1127.7.1={
	holder = 83235 #Domnall son of Cerball
}
1128.1.1={
	holder = 214550 #Diarmait son of Donnchad
}[/COLOR]
1166.7.1={
	holder = 214510 #Ruaidri Ua Conchobair
}
1170.7.1={
	holder = 214550 #Diarmait of Leinster
}
1171.5.1={
	holder = 214553 #wife of Richard de Clare
}
1172.1.1={
	liege="k_england"
}
1185.1.1={
	holder = 0
}

4. As well as Leinster (see above), I would suggest giving Connacht and Munster Tanistry succession. This isn't suitable for Ulster or Meath (1066+ scenarios) as they have Anglo-Norman aristocracy. Personally I also give Scotland Tanistry until slightly later because Malcolm III had certainly not established a stable system of primogeniture by 1066 (it was much more akin to Tanistry or Elective); I think Primogeniture is more befitting David or Malcolm IV. Incidentally, this also makes Scotland more stable and gives the Dunkelds a better chance at sticking around, as Primogeniture makes them unpopular and usually sees a succession war within moments of the game starting. So, for both gameplay and historical reasons I would suggest Tanistry for Scotland until the late 11th century, as well as for the Gaelic duchies in Ireland.

k_scotland.txt (just these sections specifically)

1058.1.1={
	holder=984 # Malcolm Canmore
	[COLOR="#FF0000"]law = succ_primogeniture[/COLOR]
}
1124.4.1={
	holder = 202998 # King David
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]law = succ_primogeniture
	law = centralization_1[/COLOR]
}

'The term "Davidian Revolution" is used by many scholars to summarise the changes which took place in the Kingdom of Scotland during his reign. These included his foundation of burghs, implementation of the ideals of Gregorian Reform, foundation of monasteries, Normanisation of the Scottish government, and the introduction of feudalism through immigrant French and Anglo-French knights.

Whatever the case, David's claim to be heir to the Scottish kingdom was doubtful. David was the youngest of eight sons of the fifth from last king. Two more recent kings had produced sons. William fitz Duncan, son of King Donnchad II, and Máel Coluim, son of the last king Alexander, both preceded David in terms of the slowly emerging principles of primogeniture. However, unlike David, neither William nor Máel Coluim had the support of Henry. So when Alexander died in 1124, the aristocracy of Scotland could either accept David as King, or face war with both David and Henry I.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_I_of_Scotland

5. I've asked this several times before but never got an answer: why are Edward I, II and III kings of Wales? What is the basis for this? They conquered Wales and began annexing it into England (which Henry VIII completed) but never claimed to be kings of Wales, simply using 'Prince of Wales' as a courtesy title for their male heirs. Aside from it being totally ahistorical, there are two gameplay issues with having the later Plantagenets as kings of both England and Wales: 1) they can lose one of those kingdoms as a result of gavelkind succession, which is totally destabilizing and would never have happened IRL; 2) only Celtic-culture rulers are supposed to be able to become kings of Wales.

6. Whilst Denmark and Sweden remained elective monarchies until much later (Sweden until Gustav Vasa I think), Norway should adopt Primogeniture in 1163.

k_norway.txt (just this section specifically)

1162.7.7={
	holder=202051 # Magnus Erlingsson
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]law = succ_primogeniture[/COLOR]
}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Law_of_Succession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_V_of_Norway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Håkon_Håkonsson

The Civil War continued during Magnus' reign, and at least two candidates claiming to be his illegitimate sons came forward after his death, but Magnus was crowned (supposedly the first Norwegian king to have a proper enthronement ceremony) and primogeniture was signed into law, even if it did not actually come into full effect until the reign of Håkon Håkonsson due to the ongoing internal strife and usurpations.

Giving Norway Primogeniture is important later in the game, as it will help to reflect the fact that monarchs like Magnus Eriksson had to contend with different succession laws in Norway and Sweden, and so those realms did (and should in-game) split after Magnus' death, instead of just having everyone vote for the same candidate in both realms. I think that makes things more interesting anyway, and it is historical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_IV_of_Sweden

7. There seems to be an error with the mother of Malcolm III and his brothers, which I'm not quite sure about. Their mother was apparently a woman (probably Norse, but it's not certain) called 'Suthen' of Scotland, which is likely a localized form as opposed to her original name.

Anyway, to correct their mother (Donald I's wife) and tidy up a few other things, I have compiled this:

norse.txt (new)

183306 = {
	name="Björn"
	# AKA: Björn, father of Siward 'Grossus'
	dynasty=502
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norse"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=100503 # Styrbjorn
	mother=101506 # Thyra
	978.1.2={
		birth="978.1.2"
	}
	1015.1.2={
		death="1015.1.2"
	}
}

183307 = {
	name="Agmundr" # his real name is unknown
	# AKA: Agmund, father of 'Suthen' of Scotland
	dynasty=502
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norse"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=100503 # Styrbjorn
	mother=101506 # Thyra
	980.1.2={
		birth="980.1.2"
	}
	1007.1.2={
		death="1007.1.2"
	}
}

183308 = {
	name="Þordis" # her real name is unknown
	# AKA: 'Suthen' of Scotland
	female=yes
	dynasty=502
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norse"
	father=183307 # Agmundr
	1005.1.2={
		birth="1005.1.2"
	}
	1052.1.2={
		death="1052.1.2"
	}
}

183309 = {
	name="Asbjörn"
	# AKA: Asbjörn, Waltheof's elder half-brother who died fighting Macbeth
	dynasty=502
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norse"
	add_trait="brave"
	add_trait="strong"
	add_trait="misguided_warrior"
	father=196 # Siward 'Grossus'
	1032.1.2={
		birth="1032.1.2"
	}
	1054.7.27={
		death = {
			death_reason = death_battle
			killer = 5996
		}
	}
}

saxon.txt > norse.txt

196 = {
	name="Sigurðr"
	# AKA: Siward 'Grossus'
	dynasty=502
	martial=7
	diplomacy=7
	intrigue=7
	stewardship=7
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norse"
	add_trait="just"
	add_trait="brave"
	add_trait="strong"
	add_trait="skilled_tactician"
	father=183306 # Björn
	1010.1.2={
		birth="1010.1.2"
	}
	1046.1.2={
		add_spouse=193
	}
	1055.3.26={
		death="1055.3.26"
	}
}

scottish.txt (old)

982 = {  	
	name="Duncan"
	# AKA: Donnchad
	dynasty=1687
	martial=6
	diplomacy=8
	intrigue=4
	stewardship=8
	religion="catholic"
	culture="scottish"
	add_trait="deceitful"
	add_trait="arbitrary"
	add_trait="wroth"
	add_trait="thrifty_clerk"
	father=962
	mother=981
	1001.1.2={
		birth="1001.1.2"
	}
	1030.1.2={
		add_spouse=183308 # 'Suthen' of Scotland
	}
	1040.8.14={
		death="1040.8.14"
	}
}

986 = {  	
	name="Donald"
	# AKA: Domnall 'Ban'
	dynasty=1687
	martial=4
	diplomacy=8
	intrigue=5
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="scottish"
	add_trait="cynical"
	add_trait="skilled_tactician"
	father=982
	mother=183308 # 'Suthen' of Scotland
	1039.12.2={
		birth="1039.12.2"
	}
	1099.2.2={
		add_trait="blinded"
		death="1099.2.2"
	}
}

994 = {  	
	name="Malmure"
	# AKA: Mael Muire
	dna="ivgnlisegyk"
	properties="0eacdk00000"	
	dynasty=100044
	martial=8
	diplomacy=7
	intrigue=6
	stewardship=8
	religion="catholic"
	culture="scottish"
	add_trait="kind"
	add_trait="proud"
	add_trait="scholarly_theologian"
	father=982
	mother=183308 # 'Suthen' of Scotland
	1041.1.1={
		birth="1041.1.1"
	}
	1130.1.1={
		death="1130.1.1"
	}
}

984 = {  	
	name="Malcolm"
	# AKA: Mael Coluim 'Canmore'
	dynasty=1687
	martial=5
	diplomacy=4
	intrigue=6
	stewardship=5
	religion="catholic"
	culture="scottish"
	add_trait="wroth"
	add_trait="cynical"
	add_trait="martial_cleric"
	father=982
	mother=183308 # 'Suthen' of Scotland
	1038.1.2={
		birth="1038.1.2"
	}
	1060.1.2={
		add_spouse = 102505
	}
	1070.1.1={
		add_spouse = 113
	}
	1093.11.13={
		death="1093.11.13"
	}
}

964 = {  	
	name="Maldred"
	# AKA: Mael Doraid
	dynasty=1687
	martial=8
	diplomacy=6
	intrigue=6
	stewardship=8
	religion="catholic"
	culture="scottish"
	add_trait="just"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=962
	mother=981
	998.1.2={
		birth="998.1.2"
	}
	1035.1.2={
		add_spouse = 189 # Edith of Bamburgh
	}
	1060.1.2={
		death="1060.1.2"
	}
}

EDIT: Removed Malmure's 'legit_bastard' trait!

All I've done with these guys is changed their wife/mother and tweaked their birth dates so they're not actually twins, which obviously they shouldn't be.

Finally, this will make Siward Grossus and his eldest son members of the af Munsö family, and his younger son Waltheof's family a cadet branch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_I_of_Scotland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siward,_Earl_of_Northumbria

8. I can't see that there's any point in d_salamanca, a titular duchy with no vassals that only exists from 1337.1.1 (the final start date) and is held by the king of Spain. He holds far too many duchies as it is (about eight) and so has to hand most of them out anyway. You should just delete Salamanca as it's totally unnecessary and appears to serve no logical or useful purpose.

9. I think it'd be a good idea to move Flanders from de jure Frisia to France. See here for the relevant discussion, but in short it'd stop the HRE's constant day-one de jure wars over Ghent, and from an historical perspective there's absolutely no reason why Flanders should be de jure HRE until the 16th century. As well as letting the duke of Flanders vote in a French elective monarchy (which would have been the case) it would stop the incredibly annoying and totally ahistorical issue of the Emperor grabbing places like Artois and Boulogne...

A sensible suggestion from that thread would be to have Flanders as de jure HRE in 867 and moved to France in 1066.

Thanks.

 

[riadach]

If I can add to this, from 1075 to 1086 Muircheartach Ua Briain should be king of Dublin under his father Toirdhealbhach Ua Briain who was king of Munster. Toirdhealbhach's other son, Diarmait, seems to have been Dux of Waterford during this period too, though I'm not sure how that should be represented in the game. The Uí Briain lose direct control of Dublin in 1086, but Muircheartach regains it in 1093, and his son, Domhnall governs it. However, in game, Domhnall is independent. This is clearly anomalous considering his power depended entirely on his father's kingship and claim to the high-kingship.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I can and will add that, but could you please write precisely the code needed here, as I am easily confused when it comes to Irish characters and their names/IDs. Thanks.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Updated this with two more sections.

 

[riadach]

I can and will add that, but could you please write precisely the code needed here, as I am easily confused when it comes to Irish characters and their names/IDs. Thanks.

*scratches head*

I can barely use a keyboard to be dreadfully hnoset.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I can barely use a keyboard to be dreadfully hnoset.

Very useful.

If you're lucky then maybe Veld or someone will forward your suggestion.

 

[Voy]

6. Whilst Denmark and Sweden remained elective monarchies until much later (Sweden until Gustav Vasa I think), Norway should adopt Primogeniture in 1163.

What are you talking about? ^^
Some would say that Denmark went Primogeniture at the party at Ringsted 25 June 1170 (or earlier) when he [King Valdemar the Great] put his oldest legitimate son [Knud] as co-regent of Denmark (he was just 7). From Valdemar not a single bastard inherited the throne and the king was always the oldest legitimate son. Valdemar had an older bastard son, but he was excluded out of the succession because of the succ change.

Sweden probably changed with Birger Jarl being duke and all around 1250 cause since Valdemar Birgersson was declared king the succession was always the oldest legitimate son or brother of the king. Although I'd argue that it was gavelkind since every king (even THE Gustav Vasa) split the lands between the sons in duchies. Normally it was Götaland, Svealand and Finland and it lead to civil war between the brothers. After Gustav Vasa this method of ruling stopped occur.

"Much later." It's not even 100 years.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Well I'd read that Denmark was an elective monarchy (of sorts) until later, but you're the expert.

Would you suggest Primogeniture for Denmark at some point, then?

 

[Voy]

Well I'd read that Denmark was an elective monarchy (of sorts) until later, but you're the expert.

Would you suggest Primogeniture for Denmark at some point, then?

Please share this source with the rest of us. It would be good to have and also because I'm not an expert.

Yes at some point. Perhaps Norway be gavelkind before 1163 instead of elective because of the instant split within the kingdom when every king died. When Magnus Barefoot died all of his bastard children split all of Norway's lands between them. It would also keep Norway in Yngling hands instead of having them vassals choose the Jarl of the Isles or Jämtland, but this might be too extreme.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Please share this source with the rest of us.

Wikipedia, the be-all and end-all of global knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_monarchy#History

'The Danish monarchy is over 1000 years old, making it the fourth oldest continual monarchy in the world still existing today, the oldest being the Imperial House of Japan. The first monarch the monarchy can be traced back to is Gorm the Old (died 958). Originally the monarchy was elective, but in practice the eldest son of the reigning monarch was elected. Later a Coronation Charter was signed by the king to restrict the powers of the Danish monarch. Absolutism was introduced in 1660–1661, when the elective monarchy was transformed into a hereditary monarchy. Male primogeniture succession was laid down in law in the Royal Decree of 1665. On 5 June 1849 the constitution was altered to create a constitutional monarchy for Denmark.[4] The Act of Succession of 27 March 1953 introduced the possibility of female succession, which enabled the current reigning Queen, Margrethe II, to accede the throne.'

 

[Voy]

Interesting. I guess it wasn't official before long, but facts remain that the four "things" of Denmark always choose the oldest legit son of the king and the big succession crises (where different things choose different throne pretenders to be king and thus caused a great civil war between the four regions) ended during the rule of Valdemar the Great.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Yeah, I understand. I'll leave it to Paradox if you don't mind, as in Denmark it appears to have been introduced later (as I suspected) in a legal sense -- even if practically speaking, father-son successions had been common since Valdemar the Great -- whereas in Norway it does actually seem to have been written into law much earlier.

Let me know if you spot any other problems, though.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Added a couple more points.

 

[estyles]

4. As well as Leinster (see above), I would suggest giving Connacht and Munster Tanistry succession. This isn't suitable for Ulster or Meath (1066+ scenarios) as they have Anglo-Norman aristocracy. Personally I also give Scotland Tanistry until slightly later because Malcolm III had certainly not established a stable system of primogeniture by 1066 (it was much more akin to Tanistry or Elective); I think Primogeniture is more befitting David or Malcolm IV. Incidentally, this also makes Scotland more stable and gives the Dunkelds a better chance at sticking around, as Primogeniture makes them unpopular and usually sees a succession war within moments of the game starting. So, for both gameplay and historical reasons I would suggest Tanistry for Scotland until the late 11th century, as well as for the Gaelic duchies in Ireland.

Yeah, the Scotland one kind of bothers me. Not only does Primogeniture make a Malcolm III start pretty unstable, but I don't see the justification for it. If anything, seniority makes the most sense for Scotland in a 1066 start. The succession around that time period is full of brothers following each other to the throne, followed by a grandson of a previous king, etc...