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InnocentIII

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I think that the tech tree is one of the strongest parts of HoI. You can replay the same nation in the same scenario and try a different tech strategy and get a significantly different play experience.

However, I think that a few things ought to be changed to improve the game:

Problem - Tech sharing right now is overpowered. A minor nation with good manpower can become a real juggernaut if a high-tech power dumps tech on it. Try playing as the US and giving Poland all your techs to see what I mean. I suggest two changes.

Solution Part 1 - First, that doctrines cannot be transferred at all. They represent the training and indoctrination of a nation's military IMHO, and you can't give that to anyone.

Solution Part 2 - Second, I suggest that the giving of a tech should not actually grant that tech to the receiving nation. Instead it should drastically reduce the IC cost of development, but not the time. I suggest that if someone gives a tech to another country that that other country should be able to research the shared tech for 1/4 the cost, but the same amount of time.

Problem - The cost of researching Doctrines varies too widely between rich nations and poorer ones. With good war entry the cost to the US of researching a 40 IC doctrine is around 1/15th of it's discretionary IC budget. For France it's around 1/4.

Solution - Like EU2 'research' I think doctrine research costs should vary with a nation's ICs. For the richest nations I'd make a current 40 IC project cost 80, for the poorer end I'd make it cost 20 or so. Non-doctrinal research would not be affected, and the time involved would not change.

Making the AI capable to respond to gift techs will be difficult, and I admit that this adds complexity to the game as well, and tech can be daunting already. However, IMHO these are not overly difficult to implement, and they would result in a less powerful, but still useful, tech sharing scheme. They would also give smaller powers a reasonable shot at having doctrines which allowed them to share a battlefield with the major powers (though not on equal footing), which certainly happened historically.
 

Generalisimo

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i think that also, it should be posible to EXCHANGE research and not only SHARE.
this could be acomplish by a pop menu where you have all your techs in the left, and their techs in the right and 2 more list where the selected techs goes, so the scheme will be:

PHP:
------------------------------------------------------
your techs                           their techs

selected techs                     selected techs

send offer           accept           refuse
------------------------------------------------------

so you can negotiate what techs you give and what techs you receive.
Currently you share your techs, but the AI doesn't share anything. :(
 

kurtbrian

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that was actually one part I liked about Civ III
 

Castellon

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The fundamental difference between Civ type game and HOI is in how your allies are viewed. Allies in Civ type games are temporary friends you use on your climb to dominance. Ofcourse you do not want to give them anything for nothing in return. IN HOI you want your allies to have every advantage because you will not be turning on them in the future, right :) . The better able they are at killing the enemy the fewer enemies there are for you to have to deal with. Now why do they not give you all their techs? That is the question. Most likely you are ahead of the AI in tech, game balance issues, bugs ... (these issues are being looked at and you will most likely see some changes in 1.02)
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by Castellon
The fundamental difference between Civ type game and HOI is in how your allies are viewed. Allies in Civ type games are temporary friends you use on your climb to dominance. Ofcourse you do not want to give them anything for nothing in return. IN HOI you want your allies to have every advantage because you will not be turning on them in the future, right :) . The better able they are at killing the enemy the fewer enemies there are for you to have to deal with. Now why do they not give you all their techs? That is the question. Most likely you are ahead of the AI in tech, game balance issues, bugs ... (these issues are being looked at and you will most likely see some changes in 1.02)
well, the idea is to try to avoid the MP games trick that USSR builds and USA researchs.
also you can as Germany develops a lot of land techs and Japan develops a lot of navy techs, after a while, you share and ... voila!! you have an almost invincible Kriegsmarine and Panzers to conquer the world in minutes. :(
if you make them EXCHANGE, it will be more dificult to do this, however it will not be imposible.
 

Korpo

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AI giving away tech in a sensible way:

Every month in an alliance it is determined which member has the lowest tech count. Now each ally shares a tech application with it.

If one shares a theory make the giver take a pause for next turn (month).

If one shares a doctrine make it pause two turns (months).

If one shares a doctrine theory make it pause 4 turns (months).

Include some checks that you don't give navy techs to landlocked nations or nuclear to anyone (no one would have shared THE bomb).

Shake and stir, pour over some ice. Drink very slowly... eh, I mean this should prove for a nice AI military help scheme.

Perhaps you could make it the rule for the player as well, graying out the diplo option as well for the same time.
 

Tim O

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When you annex a country I think you should gain some of the techs that that nation had that you don't, just like in Civilization.

When I annex Germany I think I deserve some of those advanced armour techs that I don't have.;)
 

vertinox

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Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
When you annex a country I think you should gain some of the techs that that nation had that you don't, just like in Civilization.

When I annex Germany I think I deserve some of those advanced armour techs that I don't have.;)

Not if they burn all the blueprints and blow up the factories first :D

Still the Soviets and Americans did allot of testing on captured vehicles, but really neither of them totally copied a german panzer... The basically took ideas...

The Soviets already had the IS-III as it was by 1945 even though it prolly never saw battle.
 

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Even if tech can be "stolen", doctrines need to be "secret".

Doctrines evolve in the training of the officer corps, and sooner or later become commonplace in an army. They are not, however, to be learned from books, or blueprints can be stolen.

There should be some doctrine bonus if you're at war with a high-doctrine opponent. The Soviets, Brits and Americans didn't come up with very advanced concepts of motorized, mechanized and armored warfare themselves.
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
When you annex a country I think you should gain some of the techs that that nation had that you don't, just like in Civilization.

When I annex Germany I think I deserve some of those advanced armour techs that I don't have.;)
no, i don't think so
and is totally useless and uncontrolable.
what would you do when the allies attack Germany? you will give the tech to all the allies? even to Costa Rica??? :confused:
or just the one that go to fight to Europe? how you control that?....:(
I thinks that this has no use in this game
 

unmerged(8337)

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my opinion again

as i told in another thread....

(me thinking this is important so again...)

1.
Sharing should not be free. It does not make sense giving away just blueprints. Why not let it cost you some diplomatpoints?

2.
recieving (stolen or exchanged) foreign techs shouldnt enable you to use it right away. It should cut your costs/time in developing it.

3.
It would make sense to differ in techs which are connected with a special product (e.g. blueprints for a gun) and techs that are more theoreticaly (e.g. doctrins but also some techs without a direct bonus).

4.
it should be possible (procental chance) to steal(e.g. by annexing another nation, or by getting control over there keyprovinces) those blueprinttechs.

5.
non blueprint techs (doctrins etc...) should get cheaper to develope when other nations start using it. So (e.g.) if half of the world knows how to use Megatrons, it starts to get "commen" knowledge and should be cheaper to develope (developing time should less be effected ... we dont want lots of nuclear nations at the end of game.... dont we?)

6.
some tech/doctrin develop costs/time should be adjustet. e.g. it should be harder getting nuclear stuff...

7.
more techs should not automaticly update your troups (e.g. submachinegun), instead these trooptypes can be updated manuelly (costs of supply, but not putting them in productionpool)

8.
not nessesary, but it would be a nice feature if the exact time for developing is not sure, instead the chance of finishing to develope increases so sometimes it goes faster, sometimes it takes more time to develope a tech/doctrine


hope some of these points will make it in a later patch... or at least in HOI2 :D

keeep up the good work, guys :cool:
 

unmerged(2695)

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As an American I was a fool not to start dumping tech on the Brits and Canadians from day one. They need all the help they can get before I'm able to go to war.. For some reason there are no penalties involved for me doing so. IRL there would have been.
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by Hardu
As an American I was a fool not to start dumping tech on the Brits and Canadians from day one. They need all the help they can get before I'm able to go to war.. For some reason there are no penalties involved for me doing so. IRL there would have been.
that's the problem with the current share system.
yesterday i started a new game with my friend.
I was Nationalist China and he was Argentina.
He gave me all his techs for no cost, and I, with all that destroy all the resistance of Sinkiang and Commie China in just months (just because the poor infraestructure of some areas, if not, it will be faster :D).
Now i send to him a lot of resources in reward for the techs.
But now, i am almost invincible, and it is 1936, i got all the resources I want, and i am currently fighting against England & France for their colonies to steal their rubber, then i will be trully invincible, and it is only 1936.... :(
so, i think the share system should be reviewed. :D