A Fanatic Pacifist's Guide to Megacorp

[Turean]

What happens to your Adaptability traditions if your ethics shift away from pacifist/xenophobe and you lose IP? Do you get to keep them anyway? Do they get replaced with the generic Diplomacy tree instead? If so, are those traditions automatically completed or do you have to do them again and effectively lose all the unity spent on Adaptability?

 

[Seb_Jean]

I'm not sure it triggers if you have Inward. My latest Inward (but not Agrarian Idyll) play I have my Chosen One Empress for a while and no sign of that event. Game's on hold as it's started to noticeably stutter though.

I think for the event to trigger, you need to have a government type that isn't imperial.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

What happens to your Adaptability traditions if your ethics shift away from pacifist/xenophobe and you lose IP? Do you get to keep them anyway? Do they get replaced with the generic Diplomacy tree instead? If so, are those traditions automatically completed or do you have to do them again and effectively lose all the unity spent on Adaptability?

They get replaced with DIplomacy, you keep all unlocks.

 

[Delthor]

Civics: Inward Perfection + Agrarian Idyll

What did you take for your third civic?

I'm in the middle of a very similar run. However, I'm pacifist/materialist/xenophobe. I started with Inwards Perfection and Technocracy and picked up Agrarian Idyll later on. Technocracy is absolutely nuts in combination with these other two. Inward Perfection gives you a unity boost, Technocracy gives you a solid chunk of science for every colony plus unity from scientists, and pacifism gives you a bit of admin cap. With all this, you can actually expand pretty far without really falling far behind tech- or tradition-wise. Getting Agrarian Idyll late means a bit of refactoring to get rid of city districts, but to me, the Technocracy opener is stronger, since until that mid-game tech, you only get one extra housing from Idyll farms, not two.

Materialist also means I go for robots, and with that extra population growth, by the time I built my first ringworld segment, I had 1-4 unemployed pops from 8 of my 10 colonies clamoring to move in. I was more limited by building speed than I was by pop growth, especially since I'd just recently upgraded to Erudite/Fertile. It was one of the first times I said "Whelp, time to pause my tradition growth so I can pick up Architectural Renaissance" and it was for the building speed as much as the megastructure speed.

I kept my urban development even smaller than you describe. I eliminated city districts mid-game, except for one trade planet that had like 8 rural district slots on a size 18 world, though I do have them on the ringworld. Instead, I expanded my alloy/consumer goods production on my habitats. With just three that were growing pretty slowly, I was able to keep up with alloys and consumer in great shape; I never had to wait for alloys when building my ringworld. With 6 housing/2 entertainer, you can get up to the 70 needed for a full set of buildings quite easily, and as you upgrade them, you can change some of those buildings over to rare resource refineries if you have more jobs than space.

I'm also pretty rapidly moving all pops from my other worlds to my ringworld. My goal is to reduce every other colony down to a bare-bones mining colony with mining districts plus the few buildings they support. This also leaves these colonies almost entirely robots who can specialize in mining, while my erudite main species moves to research/farming/generator ringworlds.

This last bit of moving most everyone to ringworlds (since I have a second on the way already) is more of an RP thing and experiment rather than something I know is super valuable. But it's 2375 and I'm doing great with minerals with only a level 1 Matter Decompressor. I'm already working on the second ringworld while the first fills up, so things are looking good as I move into end game.

I got my first ringworld segment colonized in 2345 and completed the whole thing by 2375. Around what time did you get your first ringworld segment built and when did you get it completed?

 

[GAGA Extrem]

My third civic pick is usually Efficient Bureaucracy. It doesn't look fancy, but it will usually equal -10% Tradition Cost and -6.6% Tech Cost at that point in time. If you manage to outpace your growth with admin capacity techs you can replace it with something else. Merchant Guilds are very powerful, particularly once you have Galactic Stock Exchanges, Miner Guilds is useful when you are M limited and I do see potential in Byzantine Bureaucracy.

One thing of note for the Agrarian Idyll civic as a strating option is that it does affect your initial planet setup - you start with only one city (down from three), but an extra farming district, which gives you much higher base food production and more options for early district choices in your colonies.

In my current game, I am gonna finish the first Ringworld segment in 2311, so I suppose it will be colonized around 2313. In this run I intent to not complete the whole Ringworld, but instead go for a Science Nexus (got buffed a lot in the internal build) and Dyson Sphere, and only upgrade the other Ringword Segments as the previous ones are completely filled up.

 

[Darth.]

but instead go for a Science Nexus (got buffed a lot in the internal build)

If you're talking about the beta patch accessible to the public, yes it's utterly ridiculous, but also quite expensive. If there is an internal build even stronger than the public beta then holy hell, isn't that a bit OP?

 

[GAGA Extrem]

It was only changed once, so I assume it's the same on both builds then.

 

[westamastaflash]

I think you're underestimating habitats. Research focused Habs can produce a ton of research with very little upkeep. And alloy foundries can go on habs too! And if you are lucky to draw the nunistic order building, the merchant priests mean a major econ boost and no need for amenity producers on the habs

 

[westamastaflash]

Also, agrarian idyll blocks ecumenoplis, which is a great way to reduce mineral usage for exotic resource creation since you can turn off a lot of your big alloy or consumer goods factories once you get it up and running (especially on a size 25 planet)

 

[Darth.]

since you can turn off a lot of your big alloy or consumer goods factories

Replace them instead of having them sitting around doing nothing and taking up a building slot.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Also, agrarian idyll blocks ecumenoplis, which is a great way to reduce mineral usage for exotic resource creation since you can turn off a lot of your big alloy or consumer goods factories once you get it up and running (especially on a size 25 planet)

I'll repeat what I have said many times in other threads: Do not forget that you have to give up deposits to create that Ecumenopolis. Every M deposit you lose could have been used to produce special resources for advanced building upkeep, and depending on tech level & other modifiers, that number can go from 2 all the way up to 8.

These are two diametrically opposed approaches to the same issue. Agrarian Idyll has incredible resource production efficiency, and reduces the strain on its upkeep economy with lower population density. The Ecumenopolis is all about efficient processing of raw materials and cramping as many people into one spot as possible. Both will deal with resource limitations, but in their own way.

 

[xMer]

But why are you insisting on resigning from any of it. Argarian Idyll is great to start with, but during reforming government you can remove it to pick Ecumenopolis Ascension perk and then you can switch back to it during next reform if you really want to.

However in mid-late game potential of Agrarian Idyll decrease a lot as Livestock pops(available due to xenophobic ethic) are superior way to gain food.
Housing need of livestock can go as low as 0.165 per pop and doesn't need districts that increase empire size. Also livestock pops can be specialized info farming unlike your primary race so yields per pop are same as for farmers but at lower empire size and housing need.

Also as population grow on multiple planets you can substitute most of your energy production/consumer goods production with Trade. is it less efficient per pop but more efficient per empire sprawl point.

 

[Darth.]

However in mid-late game potential of Agrarian Idyll decrease a lot as Livestock pops(available due to xenophobic ethic) are superior way to gain food.

How are you going to get the livestock without wars?

 

[xMer]

You buy slaves from galactic slave market.
Other option is uplifting pre-sapients and several other events that spawn pops on your planets including caravanners.

And last late-game option is to lure Fallen Empire into attacking you.
Spiritualists can be provoked by colonizing holy world
Xenophobes can be provoked by settling next to them.
Insulting seem to speed up process.
(not sure if it is possible to sufficiently annoy Materialists or Xenophiles)

 

[Karkento]

Right, so you can get around the pacifist limitation by not really playing like a pacifist. Fair play if you want to do that, but I think GAGA Extrem's playstyle and the playstyle he is recommending is for people who truly want to embrace the pacifist playstyle, not just exploit it for bonuses. The letter of the law, not just the spirit

 

[#Tukuro]

I'm not sure it triggers if you have Inward. My latest Inward (but not Agrarian Idyll) play I have my Chosen One Empress for a while and no sign of that event. Game's on hold as it's started to noticeably stutter though.

I checked the event, and it should still happen eventually; (Check trigger for relevant part)

country_event = {
   id = utopia.3400
   title = "utopia.3400.name"
   desc = "utopia.3400.desc"
   picture = GFX_evt_psionics
   show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
 
   trigger = {
       is_country_type = default
       NOT = { has_country_flag = chosen_one_ruler_event }
       OR = {
           has_authority = auth_democratic
           has_authority = auth_oligarchic
           has_authority = auth_dictatorial
       }
       any_owned_leader = {
           OR = {
               has_trait = leader_trait_admiral_chosen
               has_trait = leader_trait_general_chosen
               has_trait = leader_trait_governor_chosen
               has_trait = leader_trait_scientist_chosen
               has_trait = leader_trait_ruler_chosen
           }
       }
   }

   mean_time_to_happen = {
       months = 120
   }
 
   immediate = {
       set_country_flag = chosen_one_ruler_event
       random_owned_leader = {
           limit = {
               OR = {
                   has_trait = leader_trait_admiral_chosen
                   has_trait = leader_trait_general_chosen
                   has_trait = leader_trait_governor_chosen
                   has_trait = leader_trait_scientist_chosen
                   has_trait = leader_trait_ruler_chosen
               }
           }
           save_event_target_as = chosen_one
           species = { save_event_target_as = chosen_one_species }
       }
   }
 
   option = {
       name = "utopia.3400.a"
       ai_chance = {
           factor = 100
           modifier = {
               factor = 40
               has_ethic = ethic_egalitarian
           }
               modifier = {
               factor = 80
               has_ethic = ethic_fanatic_egalitarian
           }
       }
       custom_tooltip = reject_god_emperor
   }
   option = {
       name = "utopia.3400.b"
       ai_chance = {
           factor = 150
           modifier = {
               factor = 40
               has_ethic = ethic_authoritarian
           }
               modifier = {
               factor = 80
               has_ethic = ethic_fanatic_authoritarian
           }
       }
       shift_ethic = "ethic_fanatic_authoritarian"
       shift_ethic = "ethic_spiritualist"
       change_government = {
           authority = auth_imperial
           civics = {
               civic = civic_imperial_cult
               civic = civic_aristocratic_elite
               civic = civic_philosopher_king
           }
       }
       set_leader = event_target:chosen_one
       hidden_effect = {
           every_country = {
               limit = {
                   is_ai = no
                   NOT = { is_same_value = root }
                   has_communications = root
               }
               country_event = { id = utopia.3401 days = 4 }
           }
           country_event = { id = utopia.3402 days = 5 }
       }
   }
}

MTTH is ~10 years. So it can take a while...

 

[#Tukuro]

2. Much better option than building ring-world is building ecumenopolis. However for that you need to go cultural/industrial revolution and drop agrarian idyll.

If you're up for save-scumming there's an even easier solution; Reload until you spawn in the north-western (important) part of the galaxy, and wait till you find a First League artifact.
Completing the chain gives you a free ecumenopolis. And unless you need more than ~1000-1500 monthly alloys, you probably only need one anyway...

 

[Karkento]

If you're up for save-scumming there's an even easier solution; Reload until you spawn in the north-western (important) part of the galaxy, and wait till you find a First League artifact.
Completing the chain gives you a free ecumenopolis. And unless you need more than ~1000-1500 monthly alloys, you probably only need one anyway...

Does location matter for precursor event chain spawns?

 

[#Tukuro]

Does location matter for precursor event chain spawns?

It does. First League are in the north-west and a small segment right down the middle in the south... Cybrex are in the south-west. Irassians are to the west. Yuht to the south-east. And the Vultaum in the north-east.

See the map below...

Spoiler: Obvious Spoiler

 

[GAGA Extrem]

But why are you insisting on resigning from any of it. Argarian Idyll is great to start with, but during reforming government you can remove it to pick Ecumenopolis Ascension perk and then you can switch back to it during next reform if you really want to. [...]

In this case it is a question of playstile and preference. As I said above, in the end both options are trying to tackle the same problem. I love the way housing is paced with Agrarian Idyll - it is easy to use and effective throughout the whole game, and I prefer Ringworlds and Habitats over the Ecumenopolis.

If this was about brute efficiency, you'd probably be better off with playing a Driven Assimilator (yes, even for a pacifist playstile), since they get so much growth that your empire will snowball everyone else in the galaxy.

I am not saying that you shouldn't use the Ecumenopolis if you like it, I just want to warn you that there are a lot of drawbacks to it that people tend to overlook, blinded by the brilliance of its amazing districts.

Right, so you can get around the pacifist limitation by not really playing like a pacifist. Fair play if you want to do that, but I think GAGA Extrem's playstyle and the playstyle he is recommending is for people who truly want to embrace the pacifist playstyle, not just exploit it for bonuses. The letter of the law, not just the spirit

I mean, let people play how and what they like. But, yes, this is primarily meant as a guide for "I just want to play a peaceful game and build up my empire". There are probably signfiicantly more efficient pacifist builds out there if you wanna min-max even more. This is more about getting a feeling and understanding of the mechanics in megacorp.