A Different Perspective

[Tairneanach]

Playable when half of the game systems are not included? It is like saying Skyrim is playable if all you could do is walk around.

Not quite. If you're going to go to ludicrous lengths by comparing a 4X to an RPG, it's more like being able to do most of the basic stuff, but no pretty much essential minigames like lockpicking or alchemy. You can play the game without them, but it's harder and not as fun, plus it requires some workarounds (i.e. bashing the door down).

@Bayachay: I feel they've faced up enough and should concentrate more on patching things up, but I guess that is down to opinions.

 

[Bayachay]

I guess I have to buy into it.

So what we got was the relatively safer version, and the one they had was the cascade error version? This may explain why we are at this junction.

But I guess this is how chaotic release days are?

I reallly doubt that games should be having these kind of catastrophic errors this late in the production cycle.

I guess now they are slowly transplanting parts from an unstable release to a more stable one.

If only all this guessing was cemented by official statement about whats going on.

Like I said, nice to have transparency, not expecting it.

 

[Bayachay]

Half of the game systems not included?

If it weren't for the CTDs, I'd have finished a game by now. Everything I need to do so is there, and this is coming from a diplomatic player. Just because I'd like to be able to forge peace treaties and negotiate terms doesn't mean that I can't play the game.

so yeah, playable. Since this is an argument about what I meant when I said it, you should probably just stop; AT BEST you're just saying that I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

EDIT: also, no it's not at all like that. What is it about people on the internet and a failure to understand how to write analogies?

I am sorry about being a failure, I thought that I would let the people on the internet finish the rest of the analogy so I don't have to stress my failure of a brain to do it for him.

 

[unmerged(400937)]

None of this is guessing; everything in your post has been confirmed by developers.

as for "this late in the production cycle", that's rather the problem. If this had happened three months ago it wouldn't have been a problem, but Kerberos couldn't email their distributors two days before release (which is the timeline Mecron gave for cutting the features that were killing everything) and say "we need another three months" - not least because Arinn's post suggests that the cost of changing the release date that late would have killed Kerberos.

EDIT: The analogy was finished, it was just inappropriately hyperbolic.

 

[ashbery76]

Not quite. If you're going to go to ludicrous lengths by comparing a 4X to an RPG, it's more like being able to do most of the basic stuff, but no pretty much essential minigames like lockpicking or alchemy. You can play the game without them, but it's harder and not as fun, plus it requires some workarounds (i.e. bashing the door down).

@Bayachay: I feel they've faced up enough and should concentrate more on patching things up, but I guess that is down to opinions.

I think the diplomacy,trade and drones not working and good knows what else is not really minor thing in a 4x game.I think that's a whole X gone.

 

[Bayachay]

Ok, I will relent, some things are clearer but still.
Begs the question how come these people that went MIA gone at a such critical time, especially in such critical position too.
Then things can add up.
Don't tell me they all had family emergencies.

 

[unmerged(400937)]

He didn't say minor thing, he said essential. they're pretty much the opposite of each other.

EDIT: Bay, if you mean the Kerberos programmers, the impression I got from Arinn's post is that Kerberos had to trim its staff for budgetary reasons. That IS just speculation on my part, however, since it's not clear.

For reference, there may be a fine line to walk here. If Kerberos issue statements that wreck confidence in the game they could potentially be in breach of contract with publishers. It is possible that they're not allowed, or at least not definitely allowed, to be specific.

 

[Bayachay]

He didn't say minor thing, he said essential. they're pretty much the opposite of each other.

EDIT: Bay, if you mean the Kerberos programmers, the impression I got from Arinn's post is that Kerberos had to trim its staff for budgetary reasons. That IS just speculation on my part, however, since it's not clear.

For reference, there may be a fine line to walk here. If Kerberos issue statements that wreck confidence in the game they could potentially be in breach of contract with publishers. It is possible that they're not allowed, or at least not definitely allowed, to be specific.

This, I know. If only they can walk that fine line and reach me. I patiently await.

 

[Tairneanach]

Ok, I will relent, some things are clearer but still.
Begs the question how come these people that went MIA gone at a such critical time, especially in such critical position too.
Then things can add up.
Don't tell me they all had family emergencies.

Considering that Kerberos was pretty small to begin with, I'm guessing everybody was in a critical position.

 

[unmerged(400937)]

I might be wrong about specifics, but I've seen the number fifteen mentioned as the count for the entire staff of Kerberos.

 

[Bayachay]

Well, critical as in release stability.
The art team did manage to have a DLC available, then they took it down, sensing the heat.

 

[Tairneanach]

Well, critical as in release stability.
The art team did manage to have a DLC available, then they took it down, sensing the heat.

Huh? I got my Hiver/Tarka immersion pack. What do you mean by DLC taken down?

 

[Bayachay]

Huh? I got my Hiver/Tarka immersion pack. What do you mean by DLC taken down?

OK maybe it didn't get taken down but I can't get it on steam, unless they are not selling it.

 

[unmerged(401472)]

An knowing that someone spilled coffee over the only hard-drive the code was stored on would help you in what way exactly? I never understood that mindset. Like most of you, I don't know a lot about coding and all that stuff, so them telling me what exactly went wrong in more detail than Mecron already did wouldn't help me in any way to understand or be more patient.

As this all comes down to faith and trust... maybe giving as much reason for faith and trust as possible might help? Having some insight into the video gaming industry, I cannot possibly see why this had to happen at all. Releasing this the way they have is usually not followed by much support afterwards (I know there have been rare cases, yes, no need to tell me about Elemental and yes, I remember SotS1 in its release condition). Obviously, in this case , they pledge it will be and that might be so. But: Something went terribly wrong with the release in the first place, and seeing that I now am asked to put my faith into the company that let this go so terribly wrong, an explanation on what actually happened, and more so what drove their actions, would be of quite some help and comfort.

 

[Ordo Impavidus]

...if they pushed back the release date, those who pre-ordered would be still be angry. But that situation. could be easily remedied by putting additional extra stuff (more DLC) for said pre-orders.

Cpt. Badger,

Why would more products be appreciated from said company (companyA or companyB, which ever, in your opinion, has deceived you) to begin with?

You state also that there is no potential in their products. So why should your views change if the later-created products become free? By your logic, crap should still be crap and by extension the makers of said "crap".

Maybe --just maybe-- if you would stop being so emotional you will see how you are not making any sense.

 

[Tairneanach]

OK maybe it didn't get taken down but I can't get it on steam, unless they are not selling it.

I think that's because these pre-order bonuses are usually made available to the public a bit later than the game. I'm not sure about that, though, and I don't know if people who preordered elsewhere got their Liir/Morrigi immersion packs, either.

As this all comes down to faith and trust... maybe giving as much reason for faith and trust as possible might help? Having some insight into the video gaming industry, I cannot possibly see why this had to happen at all. Releasing this the way they have is usually not followed by much support afterwards (I know there have been rare cases, yes, no need to tell me about Elemental and yes, I remember SotS1 in its release condition). Obviously, in this case , they pledge it will be and that might be so. But: Something went terribly wrong with the release in the first place, and seeing that I now are asked to put my faith into the company that let this go so terribly wrong, an explanation on what actually happened, and more so what drove their actions, would be of quite some help and comfort.

As I said: We know that the game was supposedly running well a few days before release, barring some features that just didn't work yet, then somebody uploaded the wrong version onto Steam and because Steam doesn't do "delete and reinstall" patches, the actual working version went bonkers. The game was supposedly a lot more stable and some more features were in, but a single mistake undid the work of days.

I just can't see what more information one could need. They are working on cleaning up the mess and I'm hoping the promised stability patch will arrive soon (What was it? Mid-morning PST, i.e. late afternoon/evening CET?) and show you that you can actually put your faith in Kerberos. It won't fix everything, but I'm confident it will make the game a lot more stable. (I have to say this so that nobody mistakes it for a miracle patch after reading just my opinion.)

 

[Bayachay]

As I said: We know that the game was supposedly running well a few days before release, barring some features that just didn't work yet, then somebody uploaded the wrong version onto Steam and because Steam doesn't do "delete and reinstall" patches, the actual working version went bonkers. The game was supposedly a lot more stable and some more features were in, but a single mistake undid the work of days.

I just can't see what more information one could need. They are working on cleaning up the mess and I'm hoping the promised stability patch will arrive soon (What was it? Mid-morning PST, i.e. late afternoon/evening CET?) and show you that you can actually put your faith in Kerberos. It won't fix everything, but I'm confident it will make the game a lot more stable. (I have to say this so that nobody mistakes it for a miracle patch after reading just my opinion.)

Patching up a beta version to the release version is fine. But its a bit harder when the unreleased-release version had worse problems. The beta version upload was intentional (my reading) because it was more stable. The patch today will make game crash less and run better but a lot still isn't in yet simply because they need to slow extract the broken parts from the original release version and but it into this live-beta-semi-stable version.

 

[unmerged(400937)]

As I understand it: There are three "versions" currently around. One is the final build at Kerberos, which is badly not working. Another is the beta from around a week ago, which was the first version released on Friday, by accident. the other is the build we have now, which is the second "beta" version released, saturday morning or late friday depending on your time zone. it is neither the "final build", which is apparently screwed, nor is it the original friday beta release. it's from a few days before release and has the last few bugs still in it after the removal of the not-working stuff from the "final build".

that is my reading so far.

 

[Tairneanach]

Patching up a beta version to the release version is fine. But its a bit harder when the unreleased-release version had worse problems. The beta version upload was intentional (my reading) because it was more stable. The patch today will make game crash less and run better but a lot still isn't in yet simply because they need to slow extract the broken parts from the original release version and but it into this live-beta-semi-stable version.

Obviously, we're reading things differently. I can't reach the Kerberos forums right now and I should probably do some actual work, so I'll just leave it at: Personally, I don't see the need for more information, especially if the patch improves stability as much as I hope. This should restore confidence in those who want proof that Kerberos is taking things seriously.

 

[Bayachay]

As I understand it: There are three "versions" currently around. One is the final build at Kerberos, which is badly not working. Another is the beta from around a week ago, which was the first version released on Friday, by accident. the other is the build we have now, which is the second "beta" version released, saturday morning or late friday depending on your time zone. it is neither the "final build", which is apparently screwed, nor is it the original friday beta release. it's from a few days before release and has the last few bugs still in it after the removal of the not-working stuff from the "final build".

that is my reading so far.

Ok, yes the one we have is technically not beta. Its more like post-beta and before release. Since the beta one was the one that had options enabled.
So now effectively just two. And that the first release was not intentional. I guess the uploadeder didn't just confuse beta and release versions, but beta, post-beta and bad-version. I would feel pretty awkward in that position too.