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Bayachay

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Today is Monday, while I am anxiously waiting for the significant update, I would like to give another perspective on this release situation for SotS II.

(I know I should post this on Kerberos' forum but it was busy yesterday when I tried to sign up, just as bad today.)

As many would notice, this is my first post on the Paradox forum, I know with good confidence that I would not have to post again. With all due professionalism, I would like to make a few remarks on recent events.

Apologies, promises and refunds aside there is one other PR aspect still missing.

What really happened, information. Yes, I read the statement by Kerberos' CEO, its a start, but there just isn't enough to go on. I know there is a certain regard to the privy of information that I can only take so much for granted. But we cannot dismiss the fact that a lot of dissatisfaction can be dissipated by the release of certain related information.

Why is there so much broken code, how is two different versions being released so close to each other still so unfinished.

I think information is the paramount relation-establishing link between us, the consumers, and you, the producer. This is true in any contract relationship. I am inclined to introduce an analogy.

Lets say a major and catastrophic incident happened with loss of much valuable belonging to party A. But the damage could have been mitigated by efforts of party B.

In the immediate following time frame, party B relentlessly and passionately asked for forgiveness and doled out promises. But party A wanted to know only what happened so that A would know what exactly B did during and before the incident to cause what followed.

There is a certain rumor that I think is most likely true and I will assume it is. Lets say that was the major causation to what happened. I understand that as a company such information is quite sensitive. And that by knowing it, we may lose trust in the team to produce more good product. So what I want to say is, that has already happened (at least to some here).

I guess I should put it in a feudalistic way.

Honor has been lost. Honor cannot be gained back when the leader decides to take it for the team. (That is a responsibility thing, I don't think we are looking for that. With all the relationship between publisher, developer, consumer and bottom line, that's all covered.) I am not looking for who, or what position and role. I just want to know the series of events and how it snowballed. Traffic and over-ambition doesn't cut it for me. If it is the CEO, being the CEO itself certainly doesn't mean the game has to be like this. That is just bluntly pushing the blame onto the role.

I know I am asking for transparency in a topic that doesn't need to offer any, and is protected by law (This can be mitigated by being ambiguous). I know in this century, honor is more laughable than shit-jokes. But the demand in all serious situations of this type calls for it or some semblance of it. It doesn't even have to be honest, as long as it is certain (ambiguously-certain?).

Thank you

Oh, if this was a ploy to try to mitigate piracy, it has failed miserably. Piracy is always a double edged sword.
 

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Oh, if this was a ploy to try to mitigate piracy, it has failed miserably. Piracy is always a double edged sword.

^This. Other than that, if they pushed back the release date, those who pre-ordered would be still be angry. But that situation. could be easily remedied by putting additional extra stuff (more DLC) for said pre-orders.
 

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Mecron has explained.

What happened was that there were essential last-minute changes - a week or so before release, that were still being tested, crashes that they thought they could get fixed but couldn't. When this was combined with the accidental beta release (because Steam won't allow "delete and redownload a new package" updates) it caused more problems. This is why he seems confident that it will be playable Monday - they know what's going on.

this is explained in more detail in one of his posts on the Putting Things Right thread on the Kerberos forums.
 

DeveronMagi

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i do want to temper the idea that the monday patch will be the complete fix...Mecron has stated that they expect to need a complete month to fix it all. and they expect 3- 4 updates per week. starting today.
 

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sorry, yes; by "playable" i meant that he seemed confident of tracking down the major CTDs by monday's patch. Can't guarantee they'll be able to, obviously, and it won't fix everything, but if all goes to plan it should make the game stable enough to at least not kick you out every combat.

bay: they took some components out that weren't working - like the options menu, which apparently was causing cascades of errors. they're not missing as in "still need to be built from scratch", they're just gonna need more debugging.
 

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Mecron has explained.

What happened was that there were essential last-minute changes - a week or so before release, that were still being tested, crashes that they thought they could get fixed but couldn't. When this was combined with the accidental beta release (because Steam won't allow "delete and redownload a new package" updates) it caused more problems. This is why he seems confident that it will be playable Monday - they know what's going on.

this is explained in more detail in one of his posts on the Putting Things Right thread on the Kerberos forums.

I hate to say this, but no, he hasn't. He did say it was his fault, he says they did fuck up on that very first version released, he said that the game is in an unfinished state. Unfortunately, he never hinted at why that is so.
 

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Keep reading the thread. Will The Great, a games journalist, asks him the question directly and he answers.

The question is in massive bold letters, so it should be easy to spot.

EDIT: was going to provide a link but the thread's throwing SQL errors at me.
 

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Mecron has explained.

What happened was that there were essential last-minute changes - a week or so before release, that were still being tested, crashes that they thought they could get fixed but couldn't. When this was combined with the accidental beta release (because Steam won't allow "delete and redownload a new package" updates) it caused more problems. This is why he seems confident that it will be playable Monday - they know what's going on.

this is explained in more detail in one of his posts on the Putting Things Right thread on the Kerberos forums.

Considering he said the game will take a while because it is so unfinished (ala barren UI) and not even a manual finished.I would not expect a magical build today than makes the game fully functional.
 

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You know that makes a LOT of sense.

The game was primarily around a 2 gig install but then when they had to reneg that version... it updated and became a 4 gig install!

So the cock up is all about the beta being released and having to fix that? Damn...
 

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EDIT: also, just to repeat myself: PLAYABLE, I said, not complete. The intent is to fix the majority of the CTDs that are preventing people from getting very far in the game using today's patch. It is not, as far as I can tell, intended to fix Diplomacy, or Drones, or any of those missing features.

Not sure how to link to a post, here's the question and answer:


Will: "So that everybody's clear, do you mean to say that the current state of Sots2 is due not to an incomplete release build, but a result of a beta build being uploaded to Steam in lieu of a complete, fully-functional build, and the current difficulties stem from some kind of inability to tear down the beta and replace it with the full build?

In other words, is there, somewhere on a hard drive in KP's offices, a fully-functional, complete build of Sots2?

Finally, can we expect to see a list of features that are currently absent but will be, as you say, "added back in" over the course of these next few weeks? If so, when, and if not, why not?"



Mecron: "sigh...really wanted to avoid this and to also put on MY old journalist hat, this is why companies issue press releases instead of talking to people...cause invariably its never enough.

No Will, what you have is a version in the KP office that would have gone out clean where you would have played with relatively few crashes and then gone...hmm this things doesn't seem to be there...or why is my options not working (something I warned about early as I saw it being unavoidable) ...'cause BEHIND that version is a version where trying to do those things caused cascade errors that devoured the last few days of "finishing up". What went out was the "ok lets test the crap out of this and pin down the last dozen crashes" that testers were busting their beaks on thursday. When you combine that with 2 released bases...the word chaos is very purposely chosen.

As for a list...short version...everything we wanted. No offence but as you might imagine I have a WHACKLOAD to do right now. And if given a choice between my charming posts or putting things back on track...I suspect people have seen 2 more posts from me in this topic than they wanted. Won't lie, gonna be scarce for the next while cause one of my "what went wrong" isms was looking at how many utterly pointless posts I made over the past 3 weeks when I definetly needed my head elsewhere.


(orz, a bit but closer to my hesitating to cut sooner in order to save the patient...one bleeder taking much needed attention to other things that were on sched etc etc and by the time you look up the patient is trying to get out of wheelchair as the stitches give....look to the last 2 percentages of the perfect storm listing)
 

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I hate to say this, but no, he hasn't. He did say it was his fault, he says they did fuck up on that very first version released, he said that the game is in an unfinished state. Unfortunately, he never hinted at why that is so.

An knowing that someone spilled coffee over the only hard-drive the code was stored on would help you in what way exactly? I never understood that mindset. Like most of you, I don't know a lot about coding and all that stuff, so them telling me what exactly went wrong in more detail than Mecron already did wouldn't help me in any way to understand or be more patient.
 

Bayachay

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Don't forget the blog post by Arinn Dembo as well. There is information she has publically released that while vague, does shed a degree of light on some of the things going on behind the curtain. http://arinndembo.com/?p=743

If this was this case I wish it was commented in their official capacity by their lead man. So this is the part that I refer to as rumor.
Because if we found out that they are missing some programmers then we would naturally ask, how much went missing and whats the damage.
 

Bayachay

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An knowing that someone spilled coffee over the only hard-drive the code was stored on would help you in what way exactly? I never understood that mindset. Like most of you, I don't know a lot about coding and all that stuff, so them telling me what exactly went wrong in more detail than Mecron already did wouldn't help me in any way to understand or be more patient.

It doesn't help at all, I admit.
But facing up is part of the healing, more for them than us.
 

s1234567890m

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EDIT: also, just to repeat myself: PLAYABLE, I said, not complete. The intent is to fix the majority of the CTDs that are preventing people from getting very far in the game using today's patch. It is not, as far as I can tell, intended to fix Diplomacy, or Drones, or any of those missing features.

Not sure how to link to a post, here's the question and answer:


Will: "So that everybody's clear, do you mean to say that the current state of Sots2 is due not to an incomplete release build, but a result of a beta build being uploaded to Steam in lieu of a complete, fully-functional build, and the current difficulties stem from some kind of inability to tear down the beta and replace it with the full build?

In other words, is there, somewhere on a hard drive in KP's offices, a fully-functional, complete build of Sots2?

Finally, can we expect to see a list of features that are currently absent but will be, as you say, "added back in" over the course of these next few weeks? If so, when, and if not, why not?"



Mecron: "sigh...really wanted to avoid this and to also put on MY old journalist hat, this is why companies issue press releases instead of talking to people...cause invariably its never enough.

No Will, what you have is a version in the KP office that would have gone out clean where you would have played with relatively few crashes and then gone...hmm this things doesn't seem to be there...or why is my options not working (something I warned about early as I saw it being unavoidable) ...'cause BEHIND that version is a version where trying to do those things caused cascade errors that devoured the last few days of "finishing up". What went out was the "ok lets test the crap out of this and pin down the last dozen crashes" that testers were busting their beaks on thursday. When you combine that with 2 released bases...the word chaos is very purposely chosen.

As for a list...short version...everything we wanted. No offence but as you might imagine I have a WHACKLOAD to do right now. And if given a choice between my charming posts or putting things back on track...I suspect people have seen 2 more posts from me in this topic than they wanted. Won't lie, gonna be scarce for the next while cause one of my "what went wrong" isms was looking at how many utterly pointless posts I made over the past 3 weeks when I definetly needed my head elsewhere.


(orz, a bit but closer to my hesitating to cut sooner in order to save the patient...one bleeder taking much needed attention to other things that were on sched etc etc and by the time you look up the patient is trying to get out of wheelchair as the stitches give....look to the last 2 percentages of the perfect storm listing)

http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=342825#p342825
 

ashbery76

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EDIT: also, just to repeat myself: PLAYABLE, I said, not complete. The intent is to fix the majority of the CTDs that are preventing people from getting very far in the game using today's patch. It is not, as far as I can tell, intended to fix Diplomacy, or Drones, or any of those missing features.

Playable when half of the game systems are not included? It is like saying Skyrim is playable if all you could do is walk around.
 

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Half of the game systems not included?

If it weren't for the CTDs, I'd have finished a game by now. Everything I need to do so is there, and this is coming from a diplomatic player. Just because I'd like to be able to forge peace treaties and negotiate terms doesn't mean that I can't play the game.

so yeah, playable. Since this is an argument about what I meant when I said it, you should probably just stop; AT BEST you're just saying that I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

EDIT: also, no it's not at all like that. What is it about people on the internet and a failure to understand how to write analogies?