A couple issues and suggestions for Ck2+

[Unforeseen]

I just got done playing about 250 years into a game in Lombardy as Salerno. I'm done playing until I get the new expo. I'm loving the mod but I've noticed a couple issues.

In the last two games I've played Neustria never formed the Empire. And after a few successions Europe looked like a really bad game of Risk. In games where the Empire HAS formed, it was unstoppable until it broke apart into a Risk game. I have a suggestion for that which I'll mention at the end.

The AI won't change succession laws. It seems that with the prestige cost in place they are unwilling to reform. The lack of ability to form factions to change the succession laws means everyone stays in gavelkind forever. Which of course is part of the reason why Europe falls apart.

The AI rarely presses de jure claims on independent dukes/counts anymore. Not sure if this is related to this mod.

My suggestion is to remove the prestige cost for changing succession laws, as it appears to not be working as intended, and to change the rules on war declarations. Generally speaking it's strategically unsound and fairly unrealistic for a ruler to press a claim on a realm that he does not share a land or sea border with. Even if he wins, it would be near to impossible to rule it. That I know of there are very few instances where someone actually tried to do this. So I suggest adding a requirement for the target of a war share a border with you. And by target I mean the claim, not the character who holds the title.

Doing this wouldn't only affect the immersion, but it would also drastically reduce the chaos that ensues when a kingdom breaks apart because there would be fewer characters holding land in multiple kingdoms. Inheritance is still a factor of course but there isn't anything that can be done about that.

 

[LordPeter]

The AI won't change succession laws. It seems that with the prestige cost in place they are unwilling to reform. The lack of ability to form factions to change the succession laws means everyone stays in gavelkind forever. Which of course is part of the reason why Europe falls apart.

I agree with this part.
In most of my games I have also seen the AI stay in their default succession law forever, and indeed you could be right about the AI being to stupid to properly evaluate when to switch succession.
Maybe the devs would comment on this, or someone else share their experience?


Not sure about the rest of your post though.
This game is, after all, meant to reflekt an (alternative) history. Thus, it simulates certain events that happened during the timeframe, and does so via abstracting them into game-mechanics. They won't be 100% accurate, nor bring the most desirable gampelay results, but a good mixture of both.
As you might not be aware, CK2Plus already puts a LOT of restrictions on warfare: In vanilla, I once played a game where I would exploit the raised tribal warriors mechanic by constantly (!) declaring one Holy War after the other on the entirety of Britain.
In Plus, you can only declare Holy Wars on neighbouring realms, and you have to spend piety (even more if you already have one going), unless you get it sanctioned by your religious head.
deJure CBs are also under certain restrictions I can't name from the top of my head (I think that answers one of your questions as well), but overall I think you get what I mean.
Restricting warfare even more might produce prettier results, but I guess it would also annoy most players (including me) a lot.

Basically, everything you name (except for the succession laws issue) is actually far worse in vanilla, and is already improved on by the mod.

 

[Unforeseen]

Is it possible to mod the warfare rules myself? Don't get me wrong I'm all for the alternate history part of this game, I would get bored if everything was too similar to real life. However certain little things just get on my nerves since I'm not a "conqueror" style player. I can spend 200 years in my one little duchy and be completely content. I rarely declare war unless I have a relatively RP reason to do so. I.e. Ambitious character has a claim on a neighboring duchy, or character is a zealot and the king has -500 piety so I rebel and overthrow him placing a more pious character on the throne. Alternatively I have a craven/content character who is unlikely to go to war unless he has absolutely no choice in the matter. He may even decline an allies call to war if the odds are grim. Despite the prestige hit.

When I look up at the map every once in awhile and all around me it looks like someone spilled 4 dozen cans of rainbow colored paint on it I get discouraged and quit the game.

 

[Rylock]

The reason the AI rarely changes succession law isn't due to the prestige cost, it's due to the need to have all vassals at 0 or better relations with their liege. The AI is notoriously bad at managing their vassals' opinions,, and in the relatively rare cases where they can manage it (like with the Abbasids, who are a religion head) they don't really have anything they'd like to switch to. Sadly, that requirement is baked into the law change -- so unless we put an event-based or decision-based method for them to switch, it's not likely to happen very often.

That said, I'm unlikely to ever want to put vanilla's succession factions back in. I don't like them, and never have. The only time I could see anyone rebelling to implement a succession law is to restore one which has already been changed. If someone has suggestions on how to improve those faction, or another option, I might consider it...but, at the moment, I consider it better to have the AI rarely changing succession law than to have half the realms becoming feudal elective by the end of the game as happens in vanilla.

As for the look of realms when a kingdom breaks apart -- that's not really due to claim wars, in my experience. That's due to the AI having a very haphazard way of handing out titles. You can actually watch it happen with the Abbasids if you start a CM game. The Abbasid emperor starts handing out titles from disparate parts of the empire to the same ruler, leading to ridiculousness before very long. Happens in almost every large realm. Again, short of putting in some kind of event to force otherwise, there's nothing we can do to affect that kind of AI reasoning.

 

[Unforeseen]

It does happen to some degree, I saw it first hand in Lombardy. The duke of Benevento ended up controlling duchies scattered all over the Kingdom by pressing claims acquired through marriage. Obviously there is no way to ensure a perfectly rational division of realms within a kingdom but limiting when claim wars and even de jure wars can be initiated would reduce the problems to inheritance and title grants.

Speaking of de jure, I'm kinda curious about the decision to limit de jure enforcement to medium CA. That prevents the AI from reclaiming territory it loses in events such as these. The AI seems to rarely raise crown authority so it's never able to reclaim lost land. In my previous game Lombardy was set to Autonomous vassals for all of at least 200+ years. The king actually raised Sicily's crown authority to revoke one my titles before he raised Lombardy's.

 

[Rylock]

I'm not the one who made the de jure enforcement of kingdom/empire titles limited to medium CA -- it's been like that ever since Wiz made it so, way back -- but I agree with it. Keeping realms "neat and tidy looking" isn't the worthy end goal, in my opinion, that you seem to think it is.

I'll take a look at a way for the AI to get around the succession law vassal opinion requirement, but that's the only issue I see here that could use some addressing.

 

[Unforeseen]

Don't get me wrong, I understand most people play differently than I do, I'm just now hoping there is a way to mod it myself.

To me CK2 is a simulation, rather than a war game like most people treat it. It seems as though most people could care less about the way the AI is managing their realms because they plan to conquer it all if they can anyways. I don't. I have zero intention of conquering the world by 1440.

I play the game essentially taking only what the game gives me. I rarely fabricate claims, I rarely declare war and I rarely expand. I spend most of my time managing my own personal realm, 'interacting' with my fellow dynasty members and those of other dynasties and create a sort of story. So when I finally do get crowned king, there is a huge amount of history behind it that wasn't just me trying to "win". Hundreds of years of building up my holdings, enriching and spreading out my dynasty, feuding with other dynasties, rewarding courtiers with estates for commanding my armies, executing captured heretics and crowing people other than myself king because they were the rightful heir and their crown was stolen from them by rebels.

Not being able to press claims on realms that I don't have a land or sea connection to might not be fun for other people, but to me it's absolutely necessary because it forces the AI to play a "little" more like I do. I can't have the only "normal" realm in the game, or the fun dissipates very quickly. I removed attrition for the same reason. It's an interesting mechanic for the player to deal with, but the AI doesn't recognize it and needlessly loses entire armies to it breaking the immersion it was supposed to create.

No, CK2 will never be perfect. Nor with the AI realms. But I want to get it as close as possible. This mod is DEFINITELY a step in that direction. It adds ALOT to this game that should have been there to begin with which is why I choose this over HIP.

TLDR: I fabricated a claim once. I'm no longer employed there.

 

[Fall_ark]

That said, I'm unlikely to ever want to put vanilla's succession factions back in. I don't like them, and never have. The only time I could see anyone rebelling to implement a succession law is to restore one which has already been changed. If someone has suggestions on how to improve those faction, or another option, I might consider it...but, at the moment, I consider it better to have the AI rarely changing succession law than to have half the realms becoming feudal elective by the end of the game as happens in vanilla.

I guess it's hard to imagine it in game because factions can only be started and joined by landed vassals, otherwise limiting the succession factions to only sons/brothers/claimants would definitely be an improvement. Maybe only allow powerful sons/relatives start a faction for Primogeniture/Gavelkind/Seniority? Also, I'm not sure if claim wars changes the succession to default or not, maybe the new title holder can have an option to force a succession change if certain requirements are met (e.g. if the rebel leader is a relative to the claimant, there's a chance that the succession will change to seniority. Or if an outside claimant of different culture/religion wins the war, it'll force the title out of elective monarchy. Things like that)?

 

[LordPeter]

I'll take a look at a way for the AI to get around the succession law vassal opinion requirement, but that's the only issue I see here that could use some addressing.

That would indeed be much appreciated.

Don't get me wrong, I understand most people play differently than I do, I'm just now hoping there is a way to mod it myself.

To me CK2 is a simulation, rather than a war game like most people treat it. It seems as though most people could care less about the way the AI is managing their realms because they plan to conquer it all if they can anyways. I don't. I have zero intention of conquering the world by 1440.

I play the game essentially taking only what the game gives me. I rarely fabricate claims, I rarely declare war and I rarely expand. I spend most of my time managing my own personal realm, 'interacting' with my fellow dynasty members and those of other dynasties and create a sort of story. So when I finally do get crowned king, there is a huge amount of history behind it that wasn't just me trying to "win". Hundreds of years of building up my holdings, enriching and spreading out my dynasty, feuding with other dynasties, rewarding courtiers with estates for commanding my armies, executing captured heretics and crowing people other than myself king because they were the rightful heir and their crown was stolen from them by rebels.

Not being able to press claims on realms that I don't have a land or sea connection to might not be fun for other people, but to me it's absolutely necessary because it forces the AI to play a "little" more like I do. I can't have the only "normal" realm in the game, or the fun dissipates very quickly. I removed attrition for the same reason. It's an interesting mechanic for the player to deal with, but the AI doesn't recognize it and needlessly loses entire armies to it breaking the immersion it was supposed to create.

No, CK2 will never be perfect. Nor with the AI realms. But I want to get it as close as possible. This mod is DEFINITELY a step in that direction. It adds ALOT to this game that should have been there to begin with which is why I choose this over HIP.

TLDR: I fabricated a claim once. I'm no longer employed there.

Actually, I sympathise with your playstyle.
Now that I think of it, those are quite similar to my reasons for chosing CK2+ over HIP, and in general CK2 over say EUIV.
You just can't do much that feels fun in these games without going to war. And while in my games I have no scrupel of going to war, I do it only if I want to - or am forced to. Peacetime feels so much more complete and fun with this mod, and I have had many a ruler whose father had forged the realm with blood and steel, but who himself would just go about managing factions, raising children and doing some of the stuff you mentioned. I remember one of my favourite games was as a vassal of the Byzantine emperor (before Viceroyalties), where I would never even try to get the crown myself, but rather trying to help my liege keeping his realm stable, and supporting his wars, but hardly waging them myself.

Seeing how you already modded some things yourdelf, I would say just go ahead and do this for your personal game, as it likely won't get changed for the main mod. I myslef am playing with my personal submod as well.
Limiting the most common CBs to bordering realms shouldn't even be much work if I see this right. And removing the need for medium CA should be easy enough as well. I'd just advise you to put the changes into a submod (if you haven't already done that), to keep the modified files when the mod updates.
And should you need any help with that, feel free to ask

 

[Unforeseen]

Thanks Actually the original reason I came to these forums was to find out how to make sub mods. Just never got around to asking.

I've also been looking all over and can't figure out what to add to the cb that will restrict it to land/water borders. The wiki mentioned something that sounded like it but didn't describe what it does or where to place it.

Then on top of that I'm looking at if its possible to set a static attrition modifier for winter conditions. Right now winter only affects supply. I did some thinking and decided supply was the only real issue regarding attrition since the AI isn't programmed to do something about it if its army is starving.

 

[samsone700]

Yes