A concern about moving to the Sci-fi theme.

[Fulano5321]

I'm very excite for Planetfall, but I've got just one concern for the theme. Please make it as intuitive as you can.

In fantasy games it's very easy to recognize items, classes, races, etc. An elf or dwarf are pretty standard in what they do. It's obvious what a archer or spearman is used for.

But in the sci-fi theme theme things tend to get a lot more obscure. What exactly each race does, what the items, equipment, etc does varies based on who's telling the story. That's fine, that's part of the fun of the sci-fi theme. But trying to learn a sci-fi game can have a steep learning curve because you've got to start from scratch sometimes in understanding the universe the game is set in. I've got a few games in my library that I'd like to try but don't have the energy to put into learning the new universe. If you can, please take some steps to make sure that doesn't happen with this one.

Thanks!

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

I think it all comes down to whom the game is intended for.


If it's the "my first strategy game" crowd,(*potentially* a target audience due to wanting to go on consoles. Although, even there warzone 2100 and halo and command and conquer were all successful franchises) then your concerns are more relevant.


If you're somewhat experienced like me and have played Stellaris, endless space 2, beyond earth, then it's much less a concern.


And there are many many people out there who've played alpha centauri and, more recently xcom, and so who would be expected to be familiar with lasers, phases and pulses etc.


PLUS there are plenty of people who've played starcraft and warhammer games.

PLUS even more who've watched the Expanse, Battlestar Galactica etc.



And I daresay you've heard of Star wars? It's not very good but people seem to like it.



My longwinded point is that there is plenty of cultural reference to suppose that a large number of people know what a laser etc is.

*Arguably* more than are fantasy nerds.


I'm not worried about people understanding what a laser is.


I am more worried about lasers *feeling* different to kinetic or biological weapons , by which I mean mechanically different and not just a different coloured explosion.

I thought aow3 did a pretty good job here with elemental protections and weaknesses.

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

On the other hand I remember beyond earth and endless space 2 and how some of it seemed like gobbledygook.

 

[HousePet]

The races seem pretty troped. So no issues there.
Weaponry looks to be standard Scifi stuff too.
Generic magical super material seems generic and magical.
So it looks like there won't be much to learn.

 

[The Founder]

In fantasy games it's very easy to recognize items, classes, races, etc. An elf or dwarf are pretty standard in what they do. It's obvious what a archer or spearman is used for.

For me it is easier to understand the use of a shootgun, then to understand the use of a Bardiche or Pike.
Futuristic weapons can be way closer to current day counterparts. Especially as we seem to more or less have figured out all of them.

 

[Fulano5321]

That's true, there are a lot of sci-fi elements that are pretty standard as well.

Good to hear though that things aren't that out of reach to understand out of the box.

 

[LennartGS]

As a general directive we try to limit pure technobabble . It's a goal to have in-game function lead the the techs / tech groups names.

 

[DmUa]

Bardiche or Pike.

- pike is for stabbing, bardiche is for chopping. I hope i helped.

 

[Calm]

On a philosophical note, I compare "ease of intuition" to Klei's games, which can have buried features that completely change the game. Central and Monster in Invisible Inc are locked characters that play very differently, Mark of the Ninja's Path of Silence is a unique challenge, etc.

And then there's MOO II: Microprose wasn't afraid to put in multiple game-breaking things like plasma webs, reflector shields, stasis fields, gyro destabilizers, transport beams, etc. Put all those in the same game and have them interact with each other and things start to get crazy. It tends to make a game feel chaotic and random, but once you get a hang of it (which may take, um, years) then it's deep and rewarding.

As I think about AoW 3, I like how players can choose how "fiddly" of a game they want, where "fiddly" means "complex even at small scale"---More fiddly with support units and heroes, less fiddly with cavalry, etc. More fiddly with Frostlings/Tigrans/Halflings, less fiddly with Orcs/Draconians/Humans. More fiddly with Necro/Rogue/Sorc, less fiddly with Archdruid. More fiddly with a diverse army, less fiddly with a uniform army. More fiddly with Naga/Fey, less fiddly with Archons/Dragons. More fiddly with more units, less fiddly with Merchandise and fewer-but-bigger units.

I don't expect Planetfall to have quite the craziness that MOO 2 did, but what I noticed about AoW 3 was that while it didn't have any specific mechanic/unit/spell that was crazy complex, it had a lot of content that was of moderate complexity, and everything interacted with everything else, causing a multiplier effect. I've written elsewhere on my love for combinatorial complexity in AoW, but I just want to reiterate that I am excited about the Planetfall Race/SecretTech/Weapon Group/Perk model, as well as the unit/mod/operation interactions.

 

[Fulano5321]

Well said, I totally agree.

I bought Age of Wonders 3 back when it game out, but I'm still exploring content, trying new class/race combos, testing skills I've never tried, etc. It's a great way to keep me coming back.

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

@Calm yes indeed.

Game should be simple mechanics (that the AI can use) that feed into each other and create organic complexity.

That sounded like quite the marketing buzzword blurb.


I started played the board game Istanbul yesterday.

Pretty simple mechanics.

You can move 1 or 2 spaces.

You have to drop a helper at each destination space.

You have 4 helpers.

To get your helpers back you must return to the fountain.

Your operational space is quite limited but factor in trying to figure out the best path and then trying to second guess your opponents and then mislead them etc.

It's really quite elegant for a game that is essentially a race to collect gems.

Also, you tend to have to sacrifice a fair bit to collect a gem, so you have this tension of building up your wealth (the engine, so to speak) and judging when to trade it in for gems.

 

[Leyrann]

I mean, compare Go or Chess. The simplest rules can make for the most complex games.

And with their track record, I trust Triumph to properly implement such simple but interacting rules for Planetfall.

 

[p55carroll]

I think the OP has a good point. I'm remembering the tech tree in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. The newer one in Endless Space is no easier to comprehend. But, hey--there's some of that in AoW3 as well; you can't imagine what some of the spells do until you read about them. Sounds like the devs have it covered, though--partly by sticking to familiar tropes and partly by providing in-game info. I'm looking forward to figuring it all out when the time comes.

 

[HousePet]

SMAC and Endless Space are a different sort of game though. In that sort of game they deliberately build some sort of mystery into the tech trees, as its less critical from a strategy point of view and fits the setting with researching into the unknown. Those games still gave you all the information if you wanted to look at it though.

 

[Jean-Luc]

you can't imagine what some of the spells do until you read about them.

Nothing wrong with having to read every once in a while imo.

 

[ashbery76]

As a general directive we try to limit pure technobabble . It's a goal to have in-game function lead the the techs / tech groups names.

I like some sort of story,explanation behind techs like Centuari and ES2 did.It adds too the immersion.

 

[mr_stibbons]

I like some sort of story,explanation behind techs like Centuari and ES2 did.It adds too the immersion.

Yes. Each tech should have a flavourful text blurb to provide more world building. And so should all the operations. And all the modules.

 

[Fenraellis]

To be fair, @mr_stibbons , what you said would actually be pretty awesome. Even if your statement was given as tongue-in-cheek in recognition of the fact that it's simply not happening.

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

Yes. Each tech should have a flavourful text blurb to provide more world building. And so should all the operations. And all the modules.

To be fair, @mr_stibbons , what you said would actually be pretty awesome. Even if your statement was given as tongue-in-cheek in recognition of the fact that it's simply not happening.

It's the kind of little detail that I absolutely adore that most people take for granted, like having different loading screens and unit descriptions (remember those disappeared once) and faction based UI.

 

[p55carroll]

Nothing wrong with having to read every once in a while imo.

Nothing wrong with it. But a cryptic tech tree can be a pain in the neck when you're trying to play a game. Some of us are busy working out strategy and don't always want to be bothered by story details or flavor text while we're at it. If the story is there, it's cool; I like immersion as well as anyone. But when I've got half a dozen things to think about and there are enemies at the gates, I don't want to have to stop and figure out what String Theory does, or what a Quantum Reactor can do that a Fusion Reactor can't. It's not a big deal, though. If the game is good, I'll play it often enough to start memorizing these things. But I must have played Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri a couple hundred times at least, and I still don't know just what good a Children's Creche is or what benefits I get from Centauri Secrets. Things like Perimeter Defense (walls) and Network Node (library/computer) are a lot easier to remember and work with.

My view is that game play always comes first, story second. If there's no story in a game, or if it's not very good, so what? I can always read a book if I want that. Game play HAS to be good, or I'm not playing at all.