A complete rules book on the web

[Almogavers]

Just keep in mind that a "complete" rule book becomes automatically obsolete every time a patch is issued.

So the solution is a pdf file on the web updated with the last changes. Not a list of modifications, but the rules book updated.

 

[TylerDurden]

I dont know the answer but , at least, the spanish manual is not enough. Also I dont understand why the manual is incomplete, so this web has to be the key to understand the game, a web where the pirates can get information but some players without internet cant.

I really dont know the answer, but this way is not fair with the customers, because in the game is not an advice that you need internet.

Also I have to say that it is the best forum of a game that I ve ever met. The people really helps there are awesome AARS, really great

 

[Reckall]

Just keep in mind that a "complete" rule book becomes automatically obsolete every time a patch is issued. If you look at EU2 for example the number of rules changes made were so widespread that a rule book published at the time of retail release could very well have hindered not helped someone learning the game.

You could always argue that a rulebook in Windows Help File format could be updated everytime a patch is issued - as it already happens with John Tiller's wargames published by HPS.

Also, even in the worst scenario case, a manual and a readme with the updates are always better than stumbling in the dark.

 

[Reckall]

Axing of Joan of Arc in Eu2?

Yes. All you find in the game is an event regarding Joan with no resemblance with reality. No possibility to field her as a leader (tons of literature supporting this nothwistanding - with many pages being quoted in the forums) and no possibility to explore the consequences of further actions by Joan after 1430 (one of the most interesting chapters in medieval history, since many possible outcomes really hang on this thread - for example, an earlier start of the War of the Roses, had Joan kicked England out of the continent earlier, or even a more united England against the menace of the "English Witch". A pity, since EU2's engine would have been perfect to simulate one of the most interesting and uncertain periods in Medieval History.

The common joke was that Joan in the end was burned, not axed, so Paradox didn't got right even this

 

[unmerged(11437)]

I think is a really good idea to have a complete manual,I paid for it,and I think we deserve it!!

 

[unmerged(12389)]

I agree with the people that has expressed thar a customer can not (should not and must not) be treated like a potential pirate. I also think that the piracy issue is making many companies go wild either taking disproporcionate or using the issue to justify anything they do...

I cannot see how all the pains that we, paying buyers, are going to improve the situation, benefits or sales of any company, since we all realise that the cheater that has a pirate copy never suffers them...

On the other hand, I can not see why there could not be an online "living rules" archive in whatever format could be more convenient. It could be updated whenever a patch is released, and I believe many among us would be more than happy to collaborate to keep the rules actualised abd accurate...

Thus, I support Almogaver´s initiative, which I believe to be both achievable and coherent with the quality of service that Paradox has offered all of us until now.

 

[unmerged(11929)]

For me, a manual is nice, but not necessary. Half the fun is trying to find out how things work by yourself. From this forum, for example.

And who in their right mind would ever read a manual?

 

[unmerged(12389)]

For me, a manual is nice, but not necessary. Half the fun is trying to find out how things work by yourself. From this forum, for example.

And who in their right mind would ever read a manual?

Me, silly me. o . Really, I believe we all get to play almost inmediatly after buying the game, but when you want a "seriously" fun game, or when we want to start "searching our limits", rules and knowledge about game mechanics become essential...

 

[unmerged(11929)]

Me, silly me. o . Really, I believe we all get to play almost inmediatly after buying the game, but when you want a "seriously" fun game, or when we want to start "searching our limits", rules and knowledge about game mechanics become essential...

Concuerdo. Dijo bien!

 

[Spruce]

No, that would make life too easy for the pirates.

nope, can't agree. I didn't read a single page of manual before I started the game. Some details about the crime etc. I read the next day in my spare time,

some databases could be made - in good time, when the game is nearly finished - to have a reference for the customers that bought the game AND have the manual,

so i second Flemisch Ducks proposal, :rofl:

 

[Almogavers]

And who in their right mind would ever read a manual?

Have you ever played the boardgame ASL? I think you'd enjoy its "manual"

 

[Pocus]

and what was the reason to not include a tutorial, if not anti pirary measure? It hampered much legit customers in the process too.

 

[SR-71]

Learn from other game producers!!!!!!!!

Hello!

I've been reading this forum. I'm completely surprised that nearly nobody seems to have any experience in troubleshooting.

I have Battlecruiser Millenium, a game made with low funds and not complete knowledge of programming, and after lots of patches and MANUAL REVISIONS has become NEARLY PERFECT. They made a manual errata and revisions file, and this is exactly that Victoria needs! o
So it's clear that THE SOLUTION IS TO MAKE REGULAR GAME MANUAL REVISIONS, THAT CAN BE DOWNLOADED IN PARADOX SITE. NOT A COMPLETE MANUAL, ONLY MANUAL REVISIONS AND ADDENDUMS. THIS HAVE NOT TO OCCUPY MORE OF 1MB FOR DOWNLOADING
THE FORUMS ARE RIGHT, BUT THERE IS PEOPLE WITH NOT ENOUGH TIME TO READ ALL, AND IT´S A SHAME THAT WE HAVE TO LISTEN ABOUT CHANGES IN THE FORUM. THERE MUST BE A OFFICIAL PAGE TO READ (AND DOWNLOAD) ALL REVISIONS AND CHANGES, AND ADDENDUMS, TO MAKE THE GAME EASIER AND MORE CLEAR! I HAVE PAID 44€ AND I THINK WE WORTH IT It's not necessary a complete manual, so please don't excuse with this.

I'm badly surprised that Paradox has not considered this (excuse me if I'm wrong and you considered it, but please let EVERYBODY KNOW ABOUT IT NOW!)

Thanks greetings

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Ouch! My eyes! My eyes! :wacko:

"Someone" should probably switch of the old Caps Lock and "Bold"-button now and then.....

BTW, the patches include "readme"'s detailing changes, but they might not be complete or easily readable......

Rafiki

 

[SR-71]

This is not that I'm speaking about

Ouch! My eyes! My eyes! :wacko:

"Someone" should probably switch of the old Caps Lock and "Bold"-button now and then.....

BTW, the patches include "readme"'s detailing changes, but they might not be complete or easily readable......

Rafiki

Excuse me for my bolds and caps, but this theme is annoying to me. This is because we cannot be considered like pirates, and of course we think our money must be well-employed. And of course, remember Spaniards are very passionate

The readme file is good, and necessary but this is called in other games a VERSION CONTROL FILE, that explains the changes made to the game, but I don't say about this, I'm telling you about a MANUAL REVISION, or complement, or addendum, as you like, including FAQ, easy downloadable from Paradox explaining some questions really necessaryto be known by the new gamer.

I repeat: many people don't have enough time to search in forums deeply enough to find all questions they have, and I think Paradox is strong enough to spend some time on making a Manual Revision to make things easier for players, and, don't forget CUSTOMERS ,and I think everybody that spent 45$ or 45€ deserve it... it isn't???

Greetings

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Can't say I disagree. Speaking for myself, I think I'm starting to get the gist of the game after having spent some hours playing it, but it was a steep learning curve. Without the forum, I probably still would've been fairly lost in some parts of the game

It's Paradox' choice when they leave out a tutorial and have a manual that says little about how to play the game and what strategies might be wise. But hopefully they also see that that choice leads to quite a few frustrated players. Most of the reviews I've seen lower their rating because of this, and it might be that investing time/money in putting together a tutorial would've paid off, but I guess we'll never know

Rafiki

 

[Jim Cobb]

For me, there's no doubt the lack of a tutorial and a good manual will redult in many returns, Even publishing the annotated screens would help. The game is so finel pity that it's hurt by this.

 

[unmerged(4926)]

The manual is of course lacking in all of paradoxes newer games, but thats understandable, if they want to make any sort of profit they cant have the game playtested for balance for a year or so (Rememer.. paradox is a small company). Hence they release it and let the comunity sort out the issues with balance that one cant see at once.

What they could do tho is have a .txt wich is a bit more like a manual, there you change the things that have changed in the newest patch.

But the manual is really not needed for me to buy the game, heck ive only bought 2 games in the last years or so.. and those are EU2, HOI and will soon be bying Victoria. What paradox should explain tho when you buy the copy is that as the game get patched the manual is gradually less useful, hence the customer should make an effort to check the forums to see what new "rules" changes there have been.

All this is pretty obvious tho. The pirate issue has nothing to do with manuals as johan stated. Heck they even dropped the copy protection on the game cd. This is all fine, those who know and like the game will buy it, if not only to support paradox so that they can continue to patch the game etc. Why waste money on copy protection etc when its hacked within a week or 2 from release.. tops. Better spend the money somewhere else.

 

[qvcatullus]

I haven't got much new to say, but I might have a unique background among those who have posted so far on this thread, although I think I represent a large group of people that the People in Power ought to pay attention to.

I am an avid fan of paradox's games, but I do not own Victoria. I have a limited budget to get new games, and there are lots competing for my attention.
I am very interested in Victoria, and I find what I hear in this forum about the mechanism of the game very interesting, but I am strongly considering not putting my money into buying the game. I was able to figure out how to play EU2 effectively on my own, but even with this knowledge I was barely able to understand HoI with a veteran player helping me. I find the prospect of what seems to be an even more complicated game which departs even further from the old system that I know, which does not have a tutorial system to explain what is going on and does not even have an appropriate manual that explains what is going on in the game extremely daunting.
I do not know if concerns regarding pirates are part of the company's consideration in cutting the tutorial and the manual, but I hope they are not -- if that were true, I would be quite offended. Pirates will do as they wish, and they will figure the game out. If I'm paying for it, then please pay attention to me first.

In any case, I am very struck by how helpful the other members of this forum are, but they should not take the place of a manual. I, like many potential customers, have limited enough access to the internet and time when I have access that it is not convenient for me to get on the forums every time I have a question and then wait for a reply. I have no problem with a manual to be downloaded and updated with patches, but I can't get online every time I don't know why my cotton fields aren't working the way the manual explained (or didn't).
I again respectfully ask those in charge to pay attention to my concerns as someone who is considering not buying the game, not only for my sake, but for the many potential customers whom I am sure that I represent who are not posting on this forum.

 

[Sernaton]

I guess the discussion, like usually, goes down to a matter of expectations, which are different for everyone...

There is the group of people, like myself, that expects from a 50€ game a professional (yes, professional) release, which means: no major bugs and good documentation (read tutorial/manual/readme, whatever).

There is the group of people (lets call them the "fanboys"), that expects from a 50€ game a beta (or rather alpha) version and is happy to support the "little poor" company in their testing/balancing efforts.

I am sorry to be so blunt. I like Paradox games. I don't like Victoria "yet". And I am very disappointed with Paradox policy. It gets better rather than worse: no more tutorials, still crappy multiplayer, etc. I feel that the Victoria release is a good example of non-professional behaviour. Of course there are other vendors that do the same or worse, but that shoud not justify Paradox behaviour...

For now, I am already back in HoI and Eu2, which seem to be improving a lot with the last fixes...

Unfortunately I don't see Victoria "fixable", with a broken economical engine, and a limited user interface... Paradox would need to do major rewriting, and that won't happen.

Also, Victoria, without Tutorial and so on is doomed to sell few copies except to a few old paradox fans, like myself. And few customers means no money, and no money means less patches. Even Paradox lives in this capitalist world...

Plase don't flame me. This is just my opinion, and I might be a little bit too harsh because of my frustration with Victoria. I still would like Paradox to survive to make future (and better) games. If only they changed their business model... But now I am off-topic.

Back to topic. Please, Paradox, update your manual with every patch. And this goes not only for Victoria, also for HOI and EU2....