• Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Manziel

Lt. General
9 Badges
Feb 25, 2007
1.268
1
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
i wrote a little (well, almost 5 pages :/ ) analysis about the usefullness of different capital ships with the aim to examine the usefulness of CAs. i hope you enjoy it and have a lot of feedback.

current version: april 2nd
http://mitglied.lycos.de/manziel/efficiency_of_CAs.pdf
 

Bullfrog

General der Tso's Chicken
21 Badges
Mar 11, 2005
5.948
300
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • 200k Club
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
Where do u get the info that positioning = chance to target a screen? I would think it to be chance to target a capital.
 

safferli

academic outlaw
Moderator
107 Badges
Mar 10, 2006
11.959
115
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Yay for LaTeX! ;) Better for readability. Which is what I'm going to do now (read).
 

icon41gimp

Colonel
41 Badges
Mar 9, 2008
930
18
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Bullfrog said:
Where do u get the info that positioning = chance to target a screen? I would think it to be chance to target a capital.

I think his theory is that the enemy positioning value determines how effective your ships are at targeting their capitals. It would make sense that a well positioned fleet is harder to attack though I don't know enough to say that is how it works.
 

dublish

General
90 Badges
Apr 4, 2006
2.380
1
  • Sengoku
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
safferli said:
Yay for LaTeX! ;) Better for readability. Which is what I'm going to do now (read).
LaTeX is Satan's own word processor.
 

broadcap

Captain
10 Badges
Feb 26, 2007
432
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
does the ratio still guarantee superiority over same sized fleets if you're using 12 and 18 ship fleets? (Many countries don't have a lot of grand admirals...)

I'm assuming it is, but you never know...

EDIT: Nicely written article btw. Good job
 
Jul 21, 2006
335
10
Nice work.

However, why isn't the "best" fleet something like:
2xCA
2xCVL
26x CL+FC
 

RobbieAB

Major
28 Badges
Jun 23, 2006
769
589
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
One problem I would have is you have not traced the impact of the first round of shooting into the future.

Also, you fail to consider the screen heavy fleet. It is reasonably well documented that a screen-zerg fleet beats all the 15/15 (or 14/16) capital/screen fleets with limited losses. Whether or not this is WAD (I suspect it is!), it must be considered. The "best" fleet suddenly becomes a question of what your opponents fleet is, I suspect, and their is no absolute "best" fleet for your IC investment.

Here in lies the problem with any analysis of the naval combat model: we just don't understand how it works. Canoe < Destroyer < Cruiser < Battleship < Canoe seems to hold in game, whether this is fluke, or careful design is subject to debate. What it does show is that certain of your assumptions (chiefly the ~1:1 Capital:Screen being optimal) regarding fleet composition are clearly not always correct.
 
Jul 21, 2006
335
10
RobbieAB said:
Also, you fail to consider the screen heavy fleet. It is reasonably well documented that a screen-zerg fleet beats all the 15/15 (or 14/16) capital/screen fleets with limited losses.

But how does an all screen fleet close? As I understand it, such a fleet can't use CVL's, because with no other caps it will stay at CVL range.

Sure if you have the better leader it will close most of the time regardless, but when you don't have the better leader, what then? Run away?

I'm no naval expert, so do enlighten me if I've got something backwards.
 

semaphore

Sengoku Musou
115 Badges
Sep 17, 2005
6.190
474
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
RedFinn said:
But how does an all screen fleet close? As I understand it, such a fleet can't use CVL's, because with no other caps it will stay at CVL range.

Sure if you have the better leader it will close most of the time regardless, but when you don't have the better leader, what then? Run away?

I'm no naval expert, so do enlighten me if I've got something backwards.

Wasn't there a bug where an all-screen fleet immediately closes to 1km? Might have been fixed in the latest patch though.
 

safferli

academic outlaw
Moderator
107 Badges
Mar 10, 2006
11.959
115
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I thought the bug was an all-capital fleet will immediately close to 5km range?
 

semaphore

Sengoku Musou
115 Badges
Sep 17, 2005
6.190
474
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
safferli said:
I thought the bug was an all-capital fleet will immediately close to 5km range?

Oh. I'm probably wrong then :D

Just tried a game as '41 Japan, but couldn't seem to get the effect to appear. I guess Paradox has fixed it then; or maybe it was because my ships were up against American carriers....
 

Jones

Sergeant
5 Badges
Apr 14, 2003
73
0
Visit site
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
Isn't the reason cruizerg fleets can beat BB fleets because ALL ships in the cruiserg fleet can fire at the enemy fleet? If BB firing ranges were lowered to that of CA or CL, this would allow their escorts to be able to open fire as well. That should allow the BB fleet to beat the cruizerg fleets. thoughts?
 

Manziel

Lt. General
9 Badges
Feb 25, 2007
1.268
1
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
RedFinn said:
Nice work.

However, why isn't the "best" fleet something like:
2xCA
2xCVL
26x CL+FC
because of the lack of capitals. assume such a fleet meets the fleet i have proposed with 13 CAs. if you have 50% positioning, 6-7 CAs will target capitals, inevitably leading to multiple targetting. if you lose your CVLs you are doomed against an enemy CTF, if you lose your CAs, the CLs will be out of range. such a fleet is more cost-effective and has only minor losses in fire-power but it is risky

I thought the bug was an all-capital fleet will immediately close to 5km range?
actually its not the pure capital fleet closing. a non-CV-fleet will close to 1nm if the enemy has no screens.

concerning pure screens fleets there is a lack of knowledge. i have already heard several times that pure DD-fleets close to gun-range but i have never played one. i also dont know about pure CL-fleets.
it is however a rule that SA/ship rises significantly the smaller the ship gets, so a zerg-fleet will always be more effective if you can get it in range. however you need to consider that every ship above 30 will get an OCL-penalty, reducing its effectiveness.
i also put the word "best" in inverted commas as i consider this fleet to be the best alround fleet, of course than can be better compositions depending on your enemy

does the ratio still guarantee superiority over same sized fleets if you're using 12 and 18 ship fleets? (Many countries don't have a lot of grand admirals...)
i dont understand what you exactly mean. the capital:screen-ratio?
or the x CAs target one BB ratio?
in general, if you get enough ships, an admiral will be auto-promoted. i had 5 battlefleets in my last germany game and only had to manually promote the last grand admiral (transport-fleet was led by a normal admiral). one operational fleet means that you have about 40 ships as there are always some ships that need repairs

Isn't the reason cruizerg fleets can beat BB fleets because ALL ships in the cruiserg fleet can fire at the enemy fleet? If BB firing ranges were lowered to that of CA or CL, this would allow their escorts to be able to open fire as well. That should allow the BB fleet to beat the cruizerg fleets. thoughts?
they would be able to beat them but at a high price. i would expect both fleets to be out of commision for some time as gunfire has problems to fight gunfire in general. it is just the problem that you dont gain an advantage by fighting enemy gunfire at night or bad weather
 

Gen. Skobelev

Werewolf therapist
81 Badges
May 9, 2005
3.386
162
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
Jones said:
Isn't the reason cruizerg fleets can beat BB fleets because ALL ships in the cruiserg fleet can fire at the enemy fleet? If BB firing ranges were lowered to that of CA or CL, this would allow their escorts to be able to open fire as well. That should allow the BB fleet to beat the cruizerg fleets. thoughts?

But as BBs would take damage (which is much more costly to repair), they might come worse off from the exchange in IC-days. The idea of BB is that they can relatively unpunished hit other surface ships.
 

Jones

Sergeant
5 Badges
Apr 14, 2003
73
0
Visit site
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
they would be able to beat them but at a high price. i would expect both fleets to be out of commision for some time as gunfire has problems to fight gunfire in general. it is just the problem that you dont gain an advantage by fighting enemy gunfire at night or bad weather

Yes I suppose. To fix that the sea attack/defense could be modified to allow greater separation of the units. The way naval combat works right now is simply not realistic. 2 BB fleets engaged in battle wouldn't just involve the BBs shooting at each other and the escorts. The destroyers would make torpedo runs and screen against the other destroyers doing the same. This doesn't happen in HOI with the current system. That is why I propose to change the firing ranges to allow ALL ships to be engaged in the battles. But this also needs further tweaks to sea attack/defense so that destroyers don't sink battleships all too often.
 

Thurak

Colonel
42 Badges
Jul 1, 2004
828
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
In your open questions section you mention the flag ships with more kills. Is that not just a matter of probability? Often enough more than one ship targets another one. Let´s assume, three ships fire at one target. Then the one above in the list is exactly the one that is most likely to sink it as it has statistically most shots as it fires first. And if the targeted ship is heavily damaged after one combat round the first ship in the list firing at that target is the one sinking it.

As the flag ship always fires first (every combat round anew) it fires - on the long run - much more than any other ship and so sinks much more than any other ship.

Or is there anything I don´t see?!?
 

mike8472

Field Marshal
38 Badges
Feb 9, 2003
3.750
328
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
I tested this out in a mulitplayer game against a very good player and it worked well.

I was Germany and built 3 serials of CAs, 2 With FC 1 without. The one without fire control is so my fleet has CAs with lower gun range so the battle is target at 90% of that range allowing the CLs with FC to also fight. I had 4 serials of CLs all with FC and 2 serials of CVLs.

The battles occured around gibralter and to the south around the canarie islands.

My fleet of 30 ships, 13 CAs most with FC, 15 CLs with FC and 2 CVLs engaged a 30 ship UK fleet with 8 BBs, 3 CVs and number of CAs CLs and DDs. It was an intense and costly battle for both sides. In the end I pulled out as a 2nd fleet came in, the remains of the french fleet with a few more BBs and crusiers.

Befor I tell you the results of that battle there was another battle with my 2nd fleet made up of the starting BCs, CAs and CLs along with a number of new builds making a fleet of 24 ships with 2 CVLs. This fleet also engaged a large fleet of some 50+ ships trying to evac the 20 divisions I was fighting at gibralter. I succesfully engaged the fleet and held it off long enough to destroy those 20 divisions. After this I pulled out as my fleet had lost 9 ships and I was massively outnumbered.

In these two battles although I lost around a combined total of 30 ships mostly CLs with some CAs. The UK lost 3 CVs, 10 BBs, 3 BC, 3 CAs, 11 CLs, 14 TPs, 14 DDs. The loss of the 10 BBs plus 3 CVs was the main part of the UK surface fleet. These losses could not be replaced for the UK anytime soon. The french fleet and other allied fleets also lost around anoth 20 ships.

All up my fleets took alot of losses but dealt out far more to the enemy and has gained naval superioty. My losses could be replaced rather quickly with 7 serials of cruisers building, running at now full gearing. 100 days for a CLs and around 140 for a CA. In just over a year I can replace most of my losses, could the UK replace its?

The answer is no. Once the fleet was repaired the remainder of both fleets merged to form one fleet of about 25 ships. This combined with the Italian fleet sortied to invade the UK home islands. Since naval superiorty was won in the previous battles only limited reistance from the UK fleet occured. With some 160 Axis divisions massed on the french coast the UK was soon over run.

At present its is nearly time for the Russian war its may 1941. We always wait till the histocial date. I had one fleet of 30 ships and another of about 15 ships, I estimate that by end of 1941 to early 1942 I will have 2 full fleets of 30 ships. These will mostly engage the US navy should they try and attack me. I plan to use these fleets in a 1,2 punch. Should I find a US fleet the first fleet will engage and depending on if I win or retreat, the 2nd fleet will move in to do further damage to an already weakened fleet. I may even have a 3rd 30 ship fleet built by the time the US is confident enough to attack. With the UK in my possiesion, gibralter, suez, middle east all in my hands the US faces a big task.

It is a 6 player MP games and this curizerg strategy has worked wonders for me so far.
 

Gabriel Anthony

El Gran Capitán
4 Badges
Sep 13, 2004
537
29
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • 500k Club
Have you done one such for Carries?

I will be reading this :cool:


Edit : Ok read - most important thing learned was I didn't know that fleets tried to positiion to 90% of the range of the capital ship with the lowest range. Seems to me this is important when configuring fleets and to use or not use fire control. Before I added fire control to all capital ships but I guess if you are trying to get your Light Cruisers into range this is a problem.

Also - I noticed in one game I had old Cruisers (heavy and light) that were out ranged by a newer Light Carrier and it seems my fleet kept at Light Carrier range? So my CVL would make hits but my Cruisers wouldn't be in range. Obviously this is a problem. Does Light Carrier try and maintain range at its own range and this takes precedence over fleet trying to get within range of smallest range capital ship?
 
Last edited: