A comment on the design of DOTF

[Stategem161803]

I'm playing as Tuscany and I converted to Reformed because Reformed.

Austria is DOTF. They are rivaled to France and Venice, both my rivals. Austria is also my ally.

Despite this, Austria will join in the defense of both France and Venice, their rivals, against their ally, me.

Obviously, this is annoying for me, but I also don't agree with the design. It doesn't really make sense for the AI to make its rivals stronger and it's allies weaker. Austria should WANT me to attack Venice and France right?

In summary, I don't think the AI DOTF should be as willing to join wars in defense of "brothers of the faith" if they are defending their rivals against their allies.

 

[Aries666]

It comes down to prioritisation does/should DofT>allies?

 

[Denkt]

I think they have to accept DoF call or lose the title.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It comes down to prioritisation does/should DofT>allies?

The answer to that question is "it depends" if you're talking about optimal play, but more often than not you don't want to fight your allies because it's bad play to do so (you allied them, and not other nations, for a presumable reason). DotF then gets priority when you have next best allies that are nearly equal value to current and you stand to gain from answering the CTA, or at least not to lose more than the 500 ducats it costs.

Of course, if you made the AI always dishonor it the title would be a drag for it since humans would deliberately break it on them often.

 

[haltabush]

I think the tooltip saying the DoTF is gonna join is a bit buggy. In my game as Spain, Ottoman was DoTF but never answered despite the tooltip. Usually it was about wars in Indonesia, I guess it was too far for them (and also, I was freakingly huge)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think the tooltip saying the DoTF is gonna join is a bit buggy. In my game as Spain, Ottoman was DoTF but never answered despite the tooltip. Usually it was about wars in Indonesia, I guess it was too far for them (and also, I was freakingly huge)

Yes, something is off there. My friend would repeatedly declare on Sunni nations in Asia and as a Sunni Benin in Africa I wouldn't get DotF CTA even though it warned him that I would. I didn't get an option to refuse, and I didn't lose the title. I was simply never called. I was not in any other wars that would block it; heck I didn't even have a truce with anybody he was fighting, not that such should matter.

 

[Aries666]

For a human the decision is obviously flexible but presumably the AI needs a strict set of priorities as it cant come to a more nuanced, tactical decision, which comes back to should honouring DofT be set at a higher priorty than accepting an allied offensive calls against same religion?

 

[Aries666]

Yes, something is off there. My friend would repeatedly declare on Sunni nations in Asia and as a Sunni Benin in Africa I wouldn't get DotF CTA even though it warned him that I would. I didn't get an option to refuse, and I didn't lose the title. I was simply never called. I was not in any other wars that would block it; heck I didn't even have a truce with anybody he was fighting, not that such should matter.

I had the same as Kongo fighting Sunni subsaharans with Ottos declining.

 

[Stategem161803]

For a human the decision is obviously flexible but presumably the AI needs a strict set of priorities as it cant come to a more nuanced, tactical decision, which comes back to should honouring DofT be set at a higher priorty than accepting an allied offensive calls against same religion?

I'd even be fine if they don't join me on offense. I just don't think it makes much sense to join a war against your ally with your rival.

Edit: granted, I haven't actually tried, but I'm pretty sure they will actually join

 

[Aries666]

I'd even be fine if they don't join me on offense. I just don't think it makes much sense to join a war against your ally with your rival.

Edit: granted, I haven't actually tried, but I'm pretty sure they will actually join

I totally agree with you, it's just a case of can the AI be made to understand the situation or be given a set of rules/priorities to reach the desired outcome without the player being able to abuse it?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'd even be fine if they don't join me on offense. I just don't think it makes much sense to join a war against your ally with your rival.

Edit: granted, I haven't actually tried, but I'm pretty sure they will actually join

I've seen some inconsistencies. I nailed Castile in my Sunset Invasion run and France ignored it. I don't know how the AI makes this decision well enough to give useful tips though.

 

[naisel]

I think the tooltip saying the DoTF is gonna join is a bit buggy. In my game as Spain, Ottoman was DoTF but never answered despite the tooltip. Usually it was about wars in Indonesia, I guess it was too far for them (and also, I was freakingly huge)

In my current game I declared war on Kilwa and the tooltip said that Pasai would have joined as DoTF, but they didn't join the war and didn't lose the DoTF title either, as if they weren't called in the war.

 

[Stategem161803]

I've seen some inconsistencies. I nailed Castile in my Sunset Invasion run and France ignored it. I don't know how the AI makes this decision well enough to give useful tips though.

I assumed France wouldn't protect Lithuania as GH in my Great Khan run in 1.7. France ended up becoming Warleader which led to me fighting almost all of Western Europe.

Ever since then, I assume that they will join. Meaning I prepare as if they will join.

 

[Strangedane]

My current run had France as DOTF for catholic, me being their protestant ally Naples.

They where more than willing (+50 total) to help me force a PU on catholic Castille.

DOTF is "only" about 100 in the calculation.