A Comment from Fred (CEO) R.E. Pricing - ***UPDATE*** Read Post #68

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Lys91

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Hi,

Been reading up on your comments and wanted to clarify something regarding Fred's comment about mob mentality. Over the past decade or so we have implemented many changes - some have been appreciated and some not so appreciated and has taken time to be accepted (please note I'm not speaking about the price increase specifically). What we've learnt the hard way is the importance of listening to our actual community rather than every gamer on the internet with an opinion (many who have never even played our games and couldn't care less about us, our games or our gamers but are very vocal with their opinions). At times the voice of the community has been drowned out by this second category of gamers and it's our job to make sure we can navigate that.

Collectively at Paradox we spend a lot of time reading up on your thoughts, interacting with you online and in person - through the forum and other channels - something we would not do if we didn't think it was important. We still encourage our new employees to get a forum account as one of their first tasks when hired. Not all will post, but generally spend time reading what you post.

Wanted to add that piece of context. We will continue to read up on your thoughts - thank you for continuing to be civil to each other.

Kind regards
Susana

I am pretty sure that the people that bought 70+ of your product on this forum are your core community not a mob... I am for one very displeased with the quality of your recent output, and it is not the old PDX bug thing. It is now pushing out content without finishing the feature and pushing out half baked features. I have money to pay for DLC, I don't care about the price, but the quality of what you produce have dropped. HoI4 and Stellaris have been disaster (Stellaris way more so than HoI4, but HoI4 present no challenge, I do not even want to play the game because I cannot lose).
 
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1. "Sales team" doesn't apply to this industry as much, and as such your use here is ambiguous. Do you mean Paradox as a whole?
I mean publisher (can be departments inside same company) and it's tasks (pricing, advertising, marketing, PR, feedback collection and such) in general. Not Paradox in any way more than any other publisher, because I simply don't know their internals.

2. Your second point is simply wrong. The person(s) that does any research or analytics reports findings and/or makes suggestions to the board/CEO. As Fred stated, at the end of the day the buck stops with him. Now if your assertion is correct, being silent or outspoken is moot as regardless Fred would shift blame.
I don't know exactly if there is special analytic man without any friendship/debt ties and proper KPI setting in Paradox. Again I wrote in general.

Your subsequent paragraph, if I am to be blunt, makes me wonder what kind of experience or knowledge you have of the professional world. Simply put that children's game you cite has no bearing or relevance here.
Around 5 years outside and 10 years inside corporate political games as well as discussing such things with friends working in other corporations. Friendship, alliances, untouchables, slander, sow discontent - and much more diplo/covert actions than EU4 or CK2 have. Hired CEO (non-owner) making wrong decisions, then blaming and firing random staff to not be replaced by owners is not a rare case. Maybe it's country specific.
 
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albso437

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1. "Sales team" doesn't apply to this industry as much, and as such your use here is ambiguous. Do you mean Paradox as a whole?
2. Your second point is simply wrong. The person(s) that does any research or analytics reports findings and/or makes suggestions to the board/CEO. As Fred stated, at the end of the day the buck stops with him. Now if your assertion is correct, being silent or outspoken is moot as regardless Fred would shift blame.

Your subsequent paragraph, if I am to be blunt, makes me wonder what kind of experience or knowledge you have of the professional world. Simply put that children's game you cite has no bearing or relevance here. Whatever department or person who is tasked with data analytics or whatever it is called for Paradox, will make a full report to be delivered to the boss. There will be no middleman, certainly with a company the size of Paradox.

As for your phrase "in silence," just so we are clear, I am only talking about negative reviews on Steam. Posting your grievances on this forum would not typically fall under silence.
Now truth be told perhaps the negative reviews had more of an impact on the reversal than anything else, I don't know this to be true but I would not object to such a claim. However, I still lean towards being opposed to such actions. People may claim that the action has a noble intent, that of warning would-be buyers of "possible wrongdoings" but I do not buy that, I believe it is done more out of malice, a desire to hurt the other party, in this case Paradox.

Finally, to address how Paradox would know the reason for the loss of sales, negative reviews on Steam are not the only outlet. This board of course, but also Twitter. Yet even in the case of true silence, any competent company should be able to figure it out. Brief hypothetical:
Sales of game X are done 20%. The person in charge tasks "Shtan" (The CEO speaks like Sean Connery obviously) to figure out why and report to him.

Shtan first looks at metacritic scores to see if they have decreased from the previous version of the game (game X could be EU5, or DLC for HOI4). They do not.
He then looks at Steam data. Fewer people are playing the game, yet those that do own and play seem to be putting in the same amount of hours as the last version. This tells Shtan it is not the quality of the product.

Undeterred, Shtan looks at similar games. Are their numbers down? Could just be a down period for the genre. Are they up? Our consumers may be going elsewhere, so our are competitors putting out a better quality product? But the metacritic and other data doesn't confirm this.

Finally Shtan notices that sales are not down just for this one game, it is company wide. Any analyst or person familiar with business can tell you, if you struggle to sell even when you have a good product it is typically due to 2 reasons: marketing or brand problems. Marketing probably wouldn't apply here, as Paradox is established and loosing customers. So there is a brand problem, when there wasn't previously. So what changed. Shtan needs time to think about that (spoiler: it was the price increase).

As Shtan also notice that sales has not gone down in the US or EU, but specifically in the areas with price increase, then it should be pretty simple for Shtan to grasp what is going on.
 
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AJSM

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Boycott their current DLC policy and end up with either the modern microtransaction system or the old no free patches with DLC system that requires you to own the DLC to even be able to play?
??? What about a game with two decent full expansions (not DLC "expansions" which are 1/10 of what a real expansion is) like Paradox used to do in the past?. They used to release patches too when it was needed anyway; but the point is, it seems that by releasing so many DLCs, more patches are needed because more things get broken and features seem to be left untested or unpolished because "players will find it, notify us, and we will fix it later".
 
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I mean publisher (can be departments inside same company) and it's tasks (pricing, advertising, marketing, PR, feedback collection and such) in general. Not Paradox in any way more than any other publisher, because I simply don't know their internals.

I don't know exactly if there is special analytic man without any friendship/debt ties and proper KPI setting in Paradox. Again I wrote in general.

Around 5 years outside and 10 years inside corporate political games as well as discussing such things with friends working in other corporations. Friendship, alliances, untouchables, slander, sow discontent - and much more diplo/covert actions than EU4 or CK2 have. Hired CEO (non-owner) making wrong decisions, then blaming and firing random staff to not be replaced by owners is not a rare case. Maybe it's country specific.
I'll leave it at this, you initially said the CEO will not have an idea why sales are down. That is what I dispute.
The CEO having an idea yet shifting blame, picking a scapegoat, protecting allies, etc would be a different matter.
 

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They used to release patches too when it was needed anyway; but the point is, it seems that by releasing so many DLCs, more patches are needed because more things get broken

I don't really know the old system. But afaik those patches in the "old system" were only bug fixes. No new features, not much Quality Of Life Improvements ... and so on. So no the Patches are not only needed because things get broken, they bring many new free features (e.g. more provinces, additional events for Nations).
 

Krictic

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I don't really know the old system. But afaik those patches in the "old system" were only bug fixes. No new features, not much Quality Of Life Improvements ... and so on. So no the Patches are not only needed because things get broken, they bring many new free features (e.g. more provinces, additional events for Nations).

Why then they keep releasing QoL improvements on DLCs, like on Death or Dishonor? or Mare Nostrum? El Dorado? do i need to keep on?
 
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Why then they keep releasing QoL improvements on DLCs, like on Death or Dishonor? or Mare Nostrum? El Dorado? do i need to keep on?

Of course, you have a point there. Some QoL improvements are also in DLCs. But I think it is very very hard to decide what should be in a DLC and what not. Imho every patch for every PDX game adds so much more also in the free patch. But Money for Devs doesn't grow on trees :)
 

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A reminder that the zero tolerance policy regarding discussions of piracy are still in effect. They've never not been in effect. Please keep this in mind when posting. Thank you.
 
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Clarification: NO, this is not about the recent saga about equalizing prices across the globe. It's entirely different.

I see that Fred has come out to justify the equalization of price points across the globe for their games.

But beyond that, I notice that they have increased prices just for the duration of sales in the past. For instance, the normal price for Cities: Skylines is US$29.99. During the Feb sales, the discounted price was US$9.99. But they brought up the original price to US$40 (only for the duration of the sales) to give the illusion of a discount of 75%.

To make this even clearer: If 25% = 9.99, 100% = 9.99 x 4, for a total of $40 (rounded up)

This can be clearly seen from this source:
https://www.steamprices.com/us/app/255710/cities-skylines

Edit: Double checked with a separate source for accuracy. Shows the same thing. Zoom in to the activity dated Feb 2017.
https://steamdb.info/app/255710/

I haven't checked most of the DLC, only a few of the base games that I play. But I notice they have done the same for Stellaris too.
https://www.steamprices.com/us/app/281990/stellaris

With all due respect, raising prices to give the illusion of a larger discount percentage is possibly illegal, but highly unethical to say the least. Can someone please explain this?
 
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Of course, you have a point there. Some QoL improvements are also in DLCs. But I think it is very very hard to decide what should be in a DLC and what not. Imho every patch for every PDX game adds so much more also in the free patch. But Money for Devs doesn't grow on trees :)

I am of the opinion every QoL and procedural improvements shopuld be on free patches, so as not to alienate people who only have base game.

Also, if a company needs money, they should earn it, games are a luxury and as such, need to be good enough to justify me going out of my way to buy them. There is a reason almost no one actually likes EA or Ubisoft, because they are greedy, instead of innovating, they keep releasing bad quality games and treating their consumers badly, not to suggest Paradox is the same (i don´t think so) but this is a very slippery slope, today you are paying 10-15 dollars for Third Rome, tomorrow they may introduce micro-transactions and invasive DRMs, because no one actually complained.
 
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Lys91

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I see that Fred has come out to justify the equalization of price points across the globe for their games. But beyond that, has Paradox explained why they increased prices at various points in 2017 just for the duration of a sale/discount?

Source:
https://www.steamprices.com/us/app/255710/cities-skylines
https://www.steamprices.com/us/app/281990/stellaris

With all due respect, raising prices to give the illusion of a larger discount percentage is highly unethical to say the least. May I know what was Paradox's rationale for doing that?

Are you sure the data is accurate? That looks weird, this kind of things is illegal in many countries, I doubt PDX would play that sort of game.
 

HungryEd

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Are you sure the data is accurate? That looks weird, this kind of things is illegal in many countries, I doubt PDX would play that sort of game.

Yes, I've double checked with a separate website and I found this to be accurate.

Source: https://steamdb.info/app/255710/

Zoom in to the activity dated Feb 2017.

Normal Usual price: US$29.99
Discounted Price for Feb 7 to Feb 10: US$9.99 for a discount of 75%
To make this even clearer: If 25% = 9.99, 100% = 9.99 x 4, for a total of $40 (rounded up)

Trust me, I don't want to believe Paradox is capable of illegal stuff like this, but it seems really likely that this happened.
Can someone with authority please convince me otherwise?
 
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Cuke

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Yes, I've double checked with a separate website and I found this to be accurate.

Source: https://steamdb.info/app/255710/

Zoom in to the activity dated Feb 2017.

Normal Usual price: US$29.99
Discounted Price for Feb 7 to Feb 10: US$9.99 for a discount of 75%
To make this even clearer: If 25% = 9.99, 100% = 9.99 x 4, for a total of $40 (rounded up)

Trust me, I don't want to believe Paradox is capable of illegal stuff like this, but it seems really likely that this happened.
Can someone with authority please convince me otherwise?
When I zoom in to Feb 7, the game price is 169 RUB at 66% discount. It goes back to full price of 499 RUB on Feb 10.
 

HungryEd

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When I zoom in to Feb 7, the game price is 169 RUB at 66% discount. It goes back to full price of 499 RUB on Feb 10.

Strange, Russia seems to be the only outlier. I've checked the US dollar, British Pound, Euro, Singapore dollar and they showed the same evidence/degree of manipulation.

Edit: It might be due to the fact that Russia pays the lowest prices (relatively speaking, factoring for exchange rate) for almost every game on steam though (China recently overtook you guys just for Paradox games). Perhaps they thought the poor returns wasn't worth the risk? :D

Then again, it could have been an oversight. Be careful what you wish for!
 
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Chengar Qordath

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Clarification: NO, this is not about the recent saga about equalizing prices across the globe. It's entirely different.

I see that Fred has come out to justify the equalization of price points across the globe for their games.

But beyond that, I notice that they have increased prices just for the duration of sales in the past. For instance, the normal price for Cities: Skylines is US$29.99. During the Feb sales, the discounted price was US$9.99. But they brought up the original price to US$40 (only for the duration of the sales) to give the illusion of a discount of 75%.

To make this even clearer: If 25% = 9.99, 100% = 9.99 x 4, for a total of $40 (rounded up)

This can be clearly seen from this source:
https://www.steamprices.com/us/app/255710/cities-skylines

Edit: Double checked with a separate source for accuracy. Shows the same thing. Zoom in to the activity dated Feb 2017.
https://steamdb.info/app/255710/

I haven't checked most of the DLC, only a few of the base games that I play. But I notice they have done the same for Stellaris too.
https://www.steamprices.com/us/app/281990/stellaris

With all due respect, raising prices to give the illusion of a larger discount percentage is possibly illegal, but highly unethical to say the least. Can someone please explain this?

This really needs some sort of response/clarification from Paradox.
 

Lys91

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Yes, I've double checked with a separate website and I found this to be accurate.

Source: https://steamdb.info/app/255710/

Zoom in to the activity dated Feb 2017.

Normal Usual price: US$29.99
Discounted Price for Feb 7 to Feb 10: US$9.99 for a discount of 75%
To make this even clearer: If 25% = 9.99, 100% = 9.99 x 4, for a total of $40 (rounded up)

Trust me, I don't want to believe Paradox is capable of illegal stuff like this, but it seems really likely that this happened.
Can someone with authority please convince me otherwise?

If you do not get answer here, maybe contact some reputable youtube channel (TotalBiscuit? Arumba?) or some serious gaming website (RPS?) so they can have a look and maybe some answer?
 

Chengar Qordath

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If you do not get answer here, maybe contact some reputable youtube channel (TotalBiscuit? Arumba?) or some serious gaming website (RPS?) so they can have a look and maybe some answer?

SidAlpha's also a good choice, considering he did two videos on Paradox's price hike.
 

HungryEd

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If you do not get answer here, maybe contact some reputable youtube channel (TotalBiscuit? Arumba?) or some serious gaming website (RPS?) so they can have a look and maybe some answer?

SidAlpha's also a good choice, considering he did two videos on Paradox's price hike.

That's a good idea. Yes, I do think I will bring this issue up to the people you recommended. I'll just wait a couple days more to give Paradox a chance to refute this, before I do anything that might potentially harm their reputation (even more).
 
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