A Citadel Megastructure for the Galactic Community

[RhysTheT00n]

Before anyone points it out, yes, this is heavily inspired by Mass Effect, but then again, much of this game is, as well as other Sci-Fi properties.

The Galactic Community in Stellaris to me already shares much of the elements of the Citadel species from Mass Effect. Each species with the exception of murderous Gestalts are given the option to join the community and contribute to the mutual survival and growth of life in the galaxy, through trade, defence and so forth. In both Mass Effect and Stellaris, the Galactic Community/Citadel species are ruled by a single representative from each of the three most powerful/influential species in the community. In Mass Effect, the Citadel is the hub of Galactic activity, both in politics and culture.

I believe that the Galactic Community in Stellaris should be able to build a megastructure called the Citadel, which would act as the political and cultural center of the Galactic Community. I'm aware that the Interstellar Assembly and Mega Art Installation exist, so I think that this Citadel should be boosted in some ways by the effects of certain other megastructures of each species within the community. For example, the Citadel might be affected by the collective bonuses of all Strategic Coordination Centers in the Community, it may receive +50K Fleet power for each species in the community, so it is not taken easily. There's a lot of tweaking and and suggesting that can be done with this and as a murderous robot empire completely by chance named the Reapers using a species model that completely by chance looks more like the Geth than any other species model in the game I would very much like to try and take one of these things out on Grand Admiral with maximum advanced empires with Advanced starts.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

I am also on consoles for what that's worth.

I also think that the Endgame Crisis should try to take the Citadel as their first priority, but anything lower than max crisis strength at an early arrival would require the Crisis AI to be smart enough not to throw a single 60K fleet at a 500K Citadel at a time until they're dead. They would only attack it if they had at least twice as much power as anything currently in the system, including the Citadel itself and all the fleets defending it. On higher Crisis strength it would likely be attacked immediately, though although the how has so far evaded me, to my knowledge people can destroy a Crisis at 5X strength with ease quite early on, so I may be wrong about the likelihood of an instant Citadel defeat on part of the Crisis.
On lower difficulties I think the AI should be encouraged to spread as rapidly as possible until the Citadel is taken.

 

[InvisibleBison]

The Citadel barely makes sense in Mass Effect. Trying to force it into Stellaris would result in something completely absurd.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

The Citadel barely makes sense in Mass Effect. Trying to force it into Stellaris would result in something completely absurd.

It doesn't have to make complete logistical sense, so long as we can believe that an advanced and wealthy enough civilisation could learn to build it. In what way does the Citadel in Mass Effect not make sense? From a construction point of view? Also, like I said, there's plenty of things in Stellaris which have been heavily inspired by other Sci-Fi properties. The Contingency are almost exactly the concept of the Reapers from Mass Effect. Are you telling me that after living on planets for thousands of years with technology that lets them see detailed fleet movements across the entire galaxy, civilisations can't detect even the slightest signal of entire fleets in the center of their own planets when those planets are literally designed to open up and reveal a planet made entirely of metal?

 

[InvisibleBison]

It doesn't have to make complete logistical sense, so long as we can believe that an advanced and wealthy enough civilisation could learn to build it.

If it doesn't make sense to build such a station, why would an advanced and wealthy civilization want to build it? They have no desire to replicate Mass Effect, after all.

In what way does the Citadel in Mass Effect not make sense?

Putting the headquarters of your government on an alien space station that you don't understand and can't control is insanely risky.

Also, like I said, there's plenty of things in Stellaris which have been heavily inspired by other Sci-Fi properties.

Stellaris incorporates established sci-fi tropes. It does not, in general, directly copy other properties. In my opinion, your proposal falls into the latter category.

The Contingency are almost exactly the concept of the Reapers from Mass Effect.

The Contingency is an example of the same trope as the Reapers, but it's not a copy of them.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

If it doesn't make sense to build such a station, why would an advanced and wealthy civilization want to build it? They have no desire to replicate Mass Effect, after all.


Putting the headquarters of your government on an alien space station that you don't understand and can't control is insanely risky.


Stellaris incorporates established sci-fi tropes. It does not, in general, directly copy other properties. In my opinion, your proposal falls into the latter category.


The Contingency is an example of the same trope as the Reapers, but it's not a copy of them.

In the case of the Contingency, it's a distinction without a difference, and either way, that doesn't mean that as a feature within the game it wouldn't be good to make one. Both the Contingency and the Reapers are a fleet of sentient AI warships built by a hyper-advanced civilisation millions of years ago that wait until life in the galaxy has reached an advanced enough state and they then invade and systematically purge all life in the galaxy to prevent life getting so advanced that they create something so powerful it destroys the universe. There are distinctions between the two, but they are few and far between and are without a difference. You haven't explained why it doesn't make sense for someone to build a Citadel, you've only partially explained why the one from Mass Effect would be risky to use and that's because it was built by someone they don't understand or even know about.

The Citadel from Mass Effect doesn't make as little sense as you imply, they understand a lot about the Citadel, the only thing they don't understand is how the Keepers reproduce, and the location of the Citadel's central power source. They understand how to operate the Citadel, and it can close it's arms and lock down to be completely protected and inaccessible to anything outside it. This is why it contains the headquarters of the Galactic Community, because it is the most easily defendable and the most heavily fortified structure in the galaxy. The only reason Sovereign was able to take it was because he was methodical enough to have a man on the inside to delay Citadel Security from locking down the arms until Sovereign was inside, where the arms were then closed, protecting Sovereign from the Citadel Defense Fleet.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

In the case of the Contingency, it's a distinction without a difference, and either way, that doesn't mean that as a feature within the game it wouldn't be good to make one. Both the Contingency and the Reapers are a fleet of sentient AI warships built by a hyper-advanced civilisation millions of years ago that wait until life in the galaxy has reached an advanced enough state and they then invade and systematically purge all life in the galaxy to prevent life getting so advanced that they create something so powerful it destroys the universe. There are distinctions between the two, but they are few and far between and are without a difference. You haven't explained why it doesn't make sense for someone to build a Citadel, you've only partially explained why the one from Mass Effect would be risky to use and that's because it was built by someone they don't understand or even know about.

The Citadel from Mass Effect doesn't make as little sense as you imply, they understand a lot about the Citadel, the only thing they don't understand is how the Keepers reproduce, and the location of the Citadel's central power source. They understand how to operate the Citadel, and it can close it's arms and lock down to be completely protected and inaccessible to anything outside it. This is why it contains the headquarters of the Galactic Community, because it is the most easily defendable and the most heavily fortified structure in the galaxy. The only reason Sovereign was able to take it was because he was methodical enough to have a man on the inside to delay Citadel Security from locking down the arms until Sovereign was inside, where the arms were then closed, protecting Sovereign from the Citadel Defense Fleet.

Also, if you want to classify a race of sentient ships determined to annihilate the galaxy as a trope, rather than a copy, then why would having a huge space station that acts as the headquarters of the Galactic Community be different? Is it simply because it's called the Citadel? Because the Citadel is a cool name. Hell, you can call the Megastructure whatever you like if you give the player the option to name it, the Citadel is a badass name for a massive, heavily fortified space station which serves as the Galactic Headquarters.

 

[InvisibleBison]

In the case of the Contingency, it's a distinction without a difference

There are in fact lots of fairly significant differences between the Reapers and the Contingency:

• The Reapers purge the galaxy on a regular basis; the Contingency showing up in game is the first time it's ever activated.
• The Reapers carefully arrange the galaxy to make their purging easier; the Contingency does not.
• The Reapers are doing what they're supposed to do when they purge the galaxy; the Contingency's activation is contrary to its intended purpose.

These differences are enough to make it so that the Contingency is not simply a copy of the Reapers but another manifestation of the same trope.

Also, if you want to classify a race of sentient ships determined to annihilate the galaxy as a trope, rather than a copy, then why would having a huge space station that acts as the headquarters of the Galactic Community be different?

Because you're suggesting that Stellaris directly duplicate the Citadel, instead of saying that Stellaris should incorporate the trope of which the Citadel is an example.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

There are in fact lots of fairly significant differences between the Reapers and the Contingency:

• The Reapers purge the galaxy on a regular basis; the Contingency showing up in game is the first time it's ever activated.
• The Reapers carefully arrange the galaxy to make their purging easier; the Contingency does not.
• The Reapers are doing what they're supposed to do when they purge the galaxy; the Contingency's activation is contrary to its intended purpose.

These differences are enough to make it so that the Contingency is not simply a copy of the Reapers but another manifestation of the same trope.


Because you're suggesting that Stellaris directly duplicate the Citadel, instead of saying that Stellaris should incorporate the trope of which the Citadel is an example.

When does the game state that this is the first time they have ever been activated? In fact they say they have Contingencies in numerous other galaxies, that amount of time and preparation would likely involve the Contingency being activated several times. Also the Cybrex have been trying to defeat them (and failing) since before they were "wiped out", which means they have likely been here before. On top of that, whether this is the 1st time or the 800th is irrelevant, since they WILL return if they are victorious, that is what their plan would naturally involve. That is a distinction without a difference

How is creating Machine planets to strategically hide your fleets in and disguising them as regular planets not under the same category as making their purging easier? The Reapers intentionally hid the nature of the Citadel so it could serve as a way for them to summon their fleets to the galaxy.

The Contingency specifically says that their purpose is to prevent life from achieving I think a Class-5 Singularity, which if I remember their makers created them for that. For the Contingency you've chosen the species that made them to describe their motivation, but for the Reaper's you've chosen the Catalyst as the dictator of the intended purpose. The Catalyst didn't do what it was designed to do, only in a superficial way, it was designed to eliminate the distinction between organics and synthetics, but it took that to mean "create synthetic ships made from the bio-matter of organic life". The Catalyst wasn't created with the intention of eliminating all life, from memory, the Contingency was.

I'm not suggesting that they directly duplicate the Citadel. It's basic function of being the Galactic Capital is the same, but this wasn't made to serve as a gateway by a recurring extra-terrestrial threat and isn't maintained by a race of biologically engineered caretakers. Having a single hub made to be the political and cultural centre of the Galactic Community is just as natural of an implementation as having a Galactic Council which is governed by a single representative of each of the three most influential races in the galaxy, which is exactly what Mass Effect is.



Anyway, I'm not even sure what your problem is with the similarities between the two? The idea can be tweaked and improved sure, but it's merit as something to be put into the game should be based on:

1: Is it cool
2: How does it affect balance? Improve it or damage it?