A Chinese campaign (and China only)

[unmerged(25002)]

I was hoping that something like this would happen, a campaign called The Middle Kingdom Grand Campaign, starting from 1419 and the player can only play as Ming China, with more accurate historical choices (for example, the emperor would not be kidnapped unless he loses a big war against the Oyrats...but where the heck are they?).

China should start with naval tech of 6-11, land tech of 6-11, trade of 1 and infrastructure of 2. Provinces should start with greater incomes reflecting the huge population of China. China should be able to maintain 1 million men armies with no problem. The capital army should be divided in 3: Shen Ji, Shen Xu and Wu Jun.
Ming China should know the coastlines up to Eritrea and the red sea at Mecca and Aden. The Chinese navy should start with 300 ships.

Some events that should be in:
1. Zheng He's death in 1433, you choose outward expansion or inward perfection, as per the game. The game should undertake divergent paths and events here.
2. For outward expansion, you should get tonnes of colonists, explorers and conquistadores

Events of Inward Perfection
4. The decision for the Northern Campaign by Zheng Tong. This would be initiated by the Oyrat invasion in 1449 which gives the Oyrat hegemony over the Mongol tribes and a huge army (yes, the Oyrat faction must be created and exist...somehow). If you choose yes, you would suffer -2 stability and gain a huge army of 500000 men, led by the most inept military leader, the Emperor himself
5. If you choose no and instead choose defense, you get lowered offensive policies
6. If you choose yes, you have the 500000 army. If you are defeated in the battle, the emperor would be kidnapped and the event kicks in
7. And after a couple of days of the event, the Event of Yu Qian and the defense of the capital kicks in to restore some stability and a new Emperor Jing Tai and another army. This time this army is a volunteer army and is pretty strong. There would be the event of reestablishment of Capital Military Camps (concription center at Hubei).
8. After the Oyrats were removed from Ming national provinces, the kidnapped emperor would be returned (1450 was the historical date).
9. When Jing Tai dies, there would be a power struggle event in which Zheng Tong reclaims his throne, causing a loss of stability and Yu Qian being executed, and another era of inept leadership.
11. Fortification efforts of the Great Wall occurred in large scale 18 times throughout Ming history...
13. Also, in late Ming dynasty, if you have already chosen inward perfection, you would gain another Event: Response to the Japanese Pirates, which reestablishes your navy
14. 1550, establishment of the Horse Market. Peace with the Mongols and increased trade and stability and relations
15. 1571, An Da Khan of Mongol was made King of Shun Yi. 40 years of peace between Ming dynasty and Mongol.
16. 1517, coming of the Portuguese. If you have chosen inward perfection, the Portuguese may petition to meet you, which you can refuse and the Portuguese would have a casus belli on you and vice versa
18. 1477, the establishment of the West Works. This is a secret police organization. Decreases stability, decreases investments, causes fear and reduced revolt risks, and more inept leadership
19. If you have fought against the Portuguese after refusal to trade and won in a naval battle, you gain land and naval investments through: Capturing of Portuguese Cannons Event
20. 1555, Qi Ji Guang becomes general. Increased military tech, increased quality
21. 1565, Pan Ji Xun tames the Yellow River. Consumes great amount of ducats, but solves the very destructive Flood event (which should be included) that causes great loss of life, famine, loss of money and stability if not responded to properly
22. 1581, Zhang Ju Zheng and his Reforms. Improves Trade and Infrastructure investments, reduced serfdom, increased centralization, increased stability
23. 1594, Gu Xian establishes the Dong Ling Gang. Leave them alone: -2 stabilty. Listen to them: -1 stability, greater centralization, improved investments. Get rid of them: +1 stabilty, increased narrow mindedness, increased corruption
23. 1601, coming of the Jesuits, Matteo Ricci. East West exchange. Catholicism is introduced into China. 1610, the use of Matteo Ricci's improved Calendar (either yes or no). Increased innovativeness.
24. 1626, Yuan Chong Huan becomes general. Makes use of artillery to great effect and mortally wounds Nurhachi (if Nurhachi loses a battle against Yuan Chong Huan). Nurhachi can only be around if Manchu is still around. If Manchu is not around, then the Event of Manchu Revolts occur prior to that. If the Manchu Revolts were not dealt with, Manchuria would regain independence and led by Nurhachi, with Ming Tech...(oh oh...)
25. The Scheme of Huang Tai Ji. The emperor can choose not to believe in the scheme and still retain Yuan Chong Huan as his general.
26. China would only fall if Manchu manages to really conquer China, not by a mere event.
27. 1628, Great Famine of Shaanxi. If not dealt with properly (losing 1000 ducats to help the refugees), The Great Peasant Revolts of Gao Yin Xiang, Wang Da Liang and Wang Jia Yin kicks in.
28. 1621, Publication of Wu Bei Zhi, a book on military technology by Mao Yuan Yi. Improved land military investments.
29. 1637, Publication of Tian Gong Kai Wu, a scientific work on agriculture, war, weapons and manufacturing. Improved investments on all fields
30. 1644, game does a check. If Ming China have dealt with the Great Peasant Revolts and Manchuria, not to mention having a stability of at least -1, and controls its national provinces, the Ming Dynasty will not fall but would go onto another era of Alternate History

The Neo-Ming dynasty (1644 onwards, prerequisite: inward perfection in 1433)
I am still thinking about this...will post later.

 

[Rhodz]

Well, it's certainly an intersting idea, but many of your suggestions like having an event trigger on whether a battle is won or lost, can't be implemented within the bounds of Eu2 event scripting, as far as I know.

 

[doktarr]

China should start with naval tech of 6-11, land tech of 6-11, trade of 1 and infrastructure of 2.

That's probably happening; check the "tech level tweaking" thread.

Provinces should start with greater incomes reflecting the huge population of China. China should be able to maintain 1 million men armies with no problem.

The problem here is that making China richer and higher manpower then it alreadhy is will really throw the game out of balance. THe fundamental problem is that the provinces in China should be split into much smaller provinces - China should be somewhat richer than it is but should have three or four times as many provinces, all in the same area.

Ming China should know the coastlines up to Eritrea and the red sea at Mecca and Aden.

I agree, although there's been some debate.

The Chinese navy should start with 300 ships.

A single ship in the game represents more than one real-life ship. Their fleet should be much smaller than that.

1. Zheng He's death in 1433, you choose outward expansion or inward perfection, as per the game. The game should undertake divergent paths and events here.
2. For outward expansion, you should get tonnes of colonists, explorers and conquistadores

In the "Far East" thread, the whole Zheng He sequence has been re-worked. You should check it out.

Events of Inward Perfection
4. The decision for the Northern Campaign by Zheng Tong. This would be initiated by the Oyrat invasion in 1449 which gives the Oyrat hegemony over the Mongol tribes and a huge army (yes, the Oyrat faction must be created and exist...somehow).

The current plan is to have the Mongols in there, including a link across the PTI to their territory in the Siberian corridor. There's also been some discussion on the Mongol events in the AGC threads (there's a link in the AGCEEP Far East thread though).

If you choose yes, you would suffer -2 stability and gain a huge army of 500000 men, led by the most inept military leader, the Emperor himself

Giving someone 500,000 men out of the blue is totally unfeasible given the nature of the game. Moreover, you can change who's leading an army very easily. Also, the event triggers you discuss in this sequence can't be done.

9. When Jing Tai dies, there would be a power struggle event in which Zheng Tong reclaims his throne, causing a loss of stability and Yu Qian being executed, and another era of inept leadership.

sounds good...

11. Fortification efforts of the Great Wall occurred in large scale 18 times throughout Ming history...

The Great Wall and the Mongol events are being packaged together in the new events, I think.

13. Also, in late Ming dynasty, if you have already chosen inward perfection, you would gain another Event: Response to the Japanese Pirates, which reestablishes your navy

The thing is, we can't really disband someone's navy, even if they choose to abandon it in 1436. So there's no real need to bring it back. That said, there's talk of using events to generate a forced stagnation of Chinese naval tech, and perhaps this is a good time for those events to end.

14. 1550, establishment of the Horse Market. Peace with the Mongols and increased trade and stability and relations

Sounds good.

15. 1571, An Da Khan of Mongol was made King of Shun Yi. 40 years of peace between Ming dynasty and Mongol.

Also sounds good - I assume you're suggesting that some province get seceeded to the Mongols?

16. 1517, coming of the Portuguese. If you have chosen inward perfection, the Portuguese may petition to meet you, which you can refuse and the Portuguese would have a casus belli on you and vice versa

The "closure of China" event is already being re-worked.

18. 1477, the establishment of the West Works. This is a secret police organization. Decreases stability, decreases investments, causes fear and reduced revolt risks, and more inept leadership

Also sounds good.

19. If you have fought against the Portuguese after refusal to trade and won in a naval battle, you gain land and naval investments through: Capturing of Portuguese Cannons Event

Can't really be done.

20. 1555, Qi Ji Guang becomes general. Increased military tech, increased quality

There's already an event like that, you know.

21. 1565, Pan Ji Xun tames the Yellow River. Consumes great amount of ducats, but solves the very destructive Flood event (which should be included) that causes great loss of life, famine, loss of money and stability if not responded to properly

Sounds really good. So we should have some province-specific random events that get turned off by the default choice in this event.

22. 1581, Zhang Ju Zheng and his Reforms. Improves Trade and Infrastructure investments, reduced serfdom, increased centralization, increased stability
23. 1594, Gu Xian establishes the Dong Ling Gang. Leave them alone: -2 stabilty. Listen to them: -1 stability, greater centralization, improved investments. Get rid of them: +1 stabilty, increased narrow mindedness, increased corruption

I'd need details on these before I could judge them.

23. 1601, coming of the Jesuits, Matteo Ricci. East West exchange. Catholicism is introduced into China. 1610, the use of Matteo Ricci's improved Calendar (either yes or no). Increased innovativeness.

Again, there's already an event for this.

24. 1626, Yuan Chong Huan becomes general. Makes use of artillery to great effect and mortally wounds Nurhachi (if Nurhachi loses a battle against Yuan Chong Huan). Nurhachi can only be around if Manchu is still around. If Manchu is not around, then the Event of Manchu Revolts occur prior to that. If the Manchu Revolts were not dealt with, Manchuria would regain independence and led by Nurhachi, with Ming Tech...(oh oh...)

Again, you can't script events that way, but China could use a larger leader file - sounds like this guy should have a good fire rating but only an OK shock rating?

25. The Scheme of Huang Tai Ji. The emperor can choose not to believe in the scheme and still retain Yuan Chong Huan as his general.

Again, I don't know the details here.

26. China would only fall if Manchu manages to really conquer China, not by a mere event.

The Chinese revolts have already been re-worked to a large degree in the EEP, and the changes have been brought into the AGCEEP. There will be more changes, which you can discuss in the (you guessed it) Far East thread.

27. 1628, Great Famine of Shaanxi. If not dealt with properly (losing 1000 ducats to help the refugees), The Great Peasant Revolts of Gao Yin Xiang, Wang Da Liang and Wang Jia Yin kicks in.

While 1000 ducats sounds a bit excessive, the basic idea sounds good.

28. 1621, Publication of Wu Bei Zhi, a book on military technology by Mao Yuan Yi. Improved land military investments.
29. 1637, Publication of Tian Gong Kai Wu, a scientific work on agriculture, war, weapons and manufacturing. Improved investments on all fields

These sound like good flavor events.

30. 1644, game does a check. If Ming China have dealt with the Great Peasant Revolts and Manchuria, not to mention having a stability of at least -1, and controls its national provinces, the Ming Dynasty will not fall but would go onto another era of Alternate History

The Neo-Ming dynasty (1644 onwards, prerequisite: inward perfection in 1433)
I am still thinking about this...will post later.

As I said, the revolts (AND the "strategic decision" event) are being re-worked.

Bottom line: you have some really good ideas here, some unworkable ideas, and some ideas that I can't judge. Go to the Far East thread and discuss them there; you should get lots of feedback.

 

[unmerged(25002)]

Thanx for the replies

Thanx friendly doktarr for the review.
Can you post the URL of the far east thread here so I can contribute?

Just a bit on Ming China military tech. At the height of its time, the Chinese armed forces were 60% armed with various firearms and have basic rocket support. If you know Fire Dragon Exiting Water Rocket system, that's a 2 stage rocket system that fires a huge rocket filled with lots of smaller rockets. The Fire Crow is like a flying bomb (a rocket shaped like a bird filled with lots of gunpowder).

I am pretty disappointed that you cannot link battle events to real historical events. If that's the case, I am afraid the Tu Mu Bao Catastrophe would require some other rework...

Thanx all for contributing.

 

[doktarr]

Thanx friendly doktarr for the review.
Can you post the URL of the far east thread here so I can contribute?

It's http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89759. It's still on the front page of this forum... just a little ways down.

 

[unmerged(10128)]

Thanx friendly doktarr for the review.
Can you post the URL of the far east thread here so I can contribute?

Just a bit on Ming China military tech. At the height of its time, the Chinese armed forces were 60% armed with various firearms and have basic rocket support. If you know Fire Dragon Exiting Water Rocket system, that's a 2 stage rocket system that fires a huge rocket filled with lots of smaller rockets. The Fire Crow is like a flying bomb (a rocket shaped like a bird filled with lots of gunpowder).

I am pretty disappointed that you cannot link battle events to real historical events. If that's the case, I am afraid the Tu Mu Bao Catastrophe would require some other rework...

Thanx all for contributing.

all your ideas are good, and almost all i want included in the game. like doktarr said, many of your ideas are already being worked on, some are getting more priority (e.g. fall of Ming and dealings with Mongolia) than others. coming up with ideas is much easier than scripting them and putting them in the game because of all sorts of constraints of the game engine. thats what why are taking so long to do these kinds of things.