A cheater's confession...

[High_King]

Hello all

I haven't been on this forum for quite some time, mainly because I haven't been playing CKII for a long time (I've gotten re-addicted to Empire Total War and have been battering down the gates of all the world as the British Empire, so, that's kept me happy and busy on the videogames front for quite a while). The truth is, I'd gotten quite bored of CKII, and even though I have been very much looking forwards to this new Republic DLC that's been announced (finally a chance to play as an Italian crime family Hahaha), I questioned whether or not I'd put down the money to buy it. Maybe, I thought, my Crusader Kings days were over.

Now before I go any further, I have something of a confession to make. Every single game I've ever played in Crusader Kings, I have used cheats - mainly the money cheat, as that's really all you need. So I get a million or so gold, hire a permanent mercenary force to stand around in my capital until needed, then curb stomp any unfortunate soul who happens to be standing in the way of my glorious plans. Ironically, I first got interested in giving CKII a look when I heard on a Shogun 2 TW forum that it was the perfect game to roleplay along to, because of all the insane family rivalry and politics and great character events that pop up throughout, but when you're playing a game where you are militarily invincible, the capacity for roleplaying of any sort gets greatly diminished. So, yeah, for a good few months I've been giving CKII a wide berth, moving on to other PC pursuits.

Then tonight I thought, Hell, I'll boot it up again and have a go as the Earl of Dublin (when playing an Irish character I tend to favour the Earl of Ulster - he has the coolest goddamn name, and his portrait looks like Ned Stark). I wasn't intending to take the game very seriously (my brother was watching a TV show in the same room, and I wanted to stay slightly-focused on that as well), so I decided, to give myself an hour or so's enjoyment, I'll take off the training wheels and try to play for the first time - EVER since buying this game - without cheats. And I'm telling you, I have NEVER appreciated just how good this game is so much. I've had more fun struggling to rise up to the simple rank of Duke in one lifetime than I have in the 100+ hours I've had previous playing the game with cheats. I haven't given Crusader Kings the respect it deserves, and this newfound adoration for it comes just in time for the Republic DLC to boot.

I wanted to share this little revelation of mine on these boards because, I know there is generally strong resentment amongst some to using cheats, and while I wouldn't pay out anybody who DOES play with them (a game is a game, you play however you wanna' as far as I'm concerned), I just wanted to give a shout out to those who feel a little more strongly about it that, yes, I very much see now where you guys are coming from.

I'm back in the land of Crusader Kings! It feels good

 

[Warlord Skorr]

The idea that any form of entertainment could be played and enjoyed to it's fullest extent immediately is weird to me. It takes practice and effort to appreciate playing chess or soccer to their fullest; why should anyone think computer games are different? Cheats are a good way of easing yourself into a game as complicated as CKII.

I used a different method of training wheels: I played as the Doukid Emperors of Byzantium as my first game. The sheer potential and power I started with gave me a lot of leeway to learn what you can get away with in this game. I've been weakening my starts ever since and each game has been better for it.

 

[Arizal]

Although I never use cheats, except maybe to do an hand-off game (I don't even use the dynasty creator that I bought), I do something that displease me greatly : I reload each time I see the game doing something which is for me obviously stupid (or when I am losing badly). I also do this when I think something bad happened to me, not because I didn't play right, but because I didn't knew that and I should have known it (but it happens less frequently now).

Yet, I shouldn't do that, since it scrap all the possibility to really enjoy the game. I'm contradictory, since I ask for more realism and difficulty. Kings hadn't the opportunity to reload their lifes (nor count nor dukes)! So, after reading this post from a repentant cheater, I vow I will try to do my next game without reloading, even if I had been badly crushed, even if I'm put game over by some strange AI tactic (I would hope the AI wouldn't cheat with the Hordes, however...). After that, if I have time, I might try another game and do an AAR, but this is another thing.

 

[Alexandre_007]

never used cheats takes away a great part of the game's fun, i guess. btw, my first playthrough was as castille. in a "Learn or die" fashion. lol got kicked several times before finally got stable in the game, more cuz of luck than ability i suppose

 

[shypixel]

When I first got the game, it was my first paradox title, I didn't download the manual, and had no idea this forum existed. I thought it was a Total War style, paint the map game. I cheated at will, though in a much smaller fashion, and was largely annoyed by most of the character/dynasty management and intrigue features. (When your ruler only has good traits and has an unbroken string of victories behind him, intrigue is reduced to asking people to end plots, which always succeeds) The claim fabrication, culture and religion swaps seemed to happen at a glacial pace. I really didn't get the game.

Luckily, having decided that I was going to mod the game to be more what I expected, I started reading these forums. What I discovered was a whole new game, a whole new experience. These days I only reload when I misread an option or clicked the wrong button, I have learned to love the ups and downs of fate. I play with a very heavy RP flavor, with the idea that I may some day try my hand at an AAR. I do sometimes use cheats in these games, when it furthers the narrative, or prevents some story breaking oddity (e.g. Islamic England, The Holy Roman Horde), though as often as not, I am using cheats to affect what is happening to rulers other than myself, like preventing the ERE from completely fragmenting due to civil war too early by killing claimants or faction leaders, improving their diplomacy, etc.

I have gathered that AARs that use cheats are largely frowned upon, so I may never go that way, but I have created a great many stories and memories playing this game as it was originally intended, and have had a world of fun doing it. I have fought to unify Sweden, helped the dutch grow into a large independent kingdom, restored the Roman Empire as a Komnenos, and as a Spartenos usurper, unified Brittania as the Welsh and the English, and Hispania as Navarre and Castille, saw the birth of an Italian Kingdom and also watched it get torn asunder. I have also seen many a dynasty ground into dust by the hostile and chaotic world around them. And I still have yet to get into either a russian or muslim ruler, so there is still much for me to enjoy.

I guess you could say that I fall firmly into the "play the game however you want to" camp.

 

[kraussda]

Why doesn't anyone role play their cheating characters?

"Emperor Midas "the badass" I the immortal demigod with time traveling powers settled down to rule the county of Bern despite no one having heard of him. He had no parents as he was crafted by God himself. He was known by his court as a strong, attractive, temperate, charitable, kind, patient, humble, honest, brave, gregarious, ambitious, just, zealous, crusading genius. After producing claims on neighboring counties out of thin air (I mean, who's gonna challenge the guy?), he proceeds to put his alchemy to use to fund mercenary fueled conquest around central Europe."

 

[shypixel]

Why doesn't anyone role play their cheating characters?

"Emperor Midas "the badass" I the immortal demigod with time traveling powers settled down to rule the county of Bern despite no one having heard of him. He had no parents as he was crafted by God himself. He was known by his court as a strong, attractive, temperate, charitable, kind, patient, humble, honest, brave, gregarious, ambitious, just, zealous, crusading genius. After producing claims on neighboring counties out of thin air (I mean, who's gonna challenge the guy?), he proceeds to put his alchemy to use to fund mercenary fueled conquest around central Europe."

Challenge Accepted

 

[kraussda]

Challenge Accepted

If you're gonna try it, don't forget the part where the Mongols come and he decides that the hordes aren't menacing enough and spawns 5 more "because he likes a challenge"

 

[shypixel]

Was actually thinking it might be fun to run a CK2+ game as a Jewish kingdom of Israel - literally play as the second coming of Christ. You know, heal the sick, raise the dead, expand the Kingdom over all the Earth.

Mine Eyes Have Seen The Glory!


(yes, I know this would be far to offensive to actually post)

 

[High_King]

It's really nice coming back to these forums after so long and getting so many great replies, thanks you guys, haha, if my game session from earlier hadn't done so already, reading these has very much rekindled the desire to play!

I wanted to say to Frederic III, firstly, it is an honour to have inspired you in such a way xD Secondly I wanna' take the concept of "save scumming" to highlight a couple of times in this most recent "cheats free" game that being screwed over really added to the story I was seeing unfold. The first incident occurred almost immediately after game start - the peasant's rebelled. Honestly, in all my days playing I've never seen that happen so fast. It was within literally a month of game start, they rebelled with 500 troops to my full levy of 200...I was defeated in battle and had to watch in horror as the rebel scum occupied my land. Now at this point in playing I was still thinking "Ugh, no cheats, this will suck and be too hard..." so I thought of just turning the game off at that point. But then - when my final holding was occupied - something strange happened. Because all my holdings were occupied by a hostile force, but rebels can't "Enforce Demands" to end a war, my Line of Sight disappeared. I dunno' if anyone else has seen this happening but apparently if all your holdings are occupied you lose line of sight. So, I was staring at a map of my own county entirely shrouded by the fog of war. What stopped me from turning off the game was the realisation that, in roleplaying terms, my court was now a court in exile; with peasant rebels occupying my castle, my Earl and his family had to hide out elsewhere (this added an interesting backdrop for the ongoing affair I was having with my brother's wife at the time too ). Then, something interesting happened...my father, the Earl of Leinster, died, leaving his lands to me. And his armies. What this meant was, my Earl, who was living in some barn while his castle was occupied by rebels, received word that his father had died, leaving all his land, titles and men to him - giving him the perfect chance to take back his lost holdings. I promptly raised my late father's levies and took back Dublin. It was an awesome little story arc, and it's what got me hooked into carrying on, with or without cheats.

If you let yourself play out bad scenarios, the outcome is often a lot cooler and a lot more fun than if you simply got everything you wanted all the time. A similar thing has happened more recently; I married my heir off to the Duchess of Poitou (don't ask me how I managed it; I just attempted it and she agreed). Turns out, now that I am playing as that heir, his daughter is currently the Duchess but his son is heir to the Duchy of Leinster (his primary title). So my plan of taking Poitou won't work out, unless I can kill off my daughter and claim the title for myself...

In Crusader Kings, I'm starting to realise, some of the game's best moments happen when things go horribly, horribly wrong.

 

[Lord Samuel]

I use cheats all the time. Only to make things 'right' in my eyes, though.
I'm constantly saving foreign dynasties from suicide, reinstalling exiled families on their rightful counties, but also correcting such unbearable oddities such as a french Lithuania, or a germanic Mauretania.

 

[doubleskulls]

I'm back in the land of Crusader Kings! It feels good

Welcome to the light side Its much more fun over here.

 

[Djieh]

In Crusader Kings, I'm starting to realise, some of the game's best moments happen when things go horribly, horribly wrong.

Have you ever read the "In the Shadow of Certain, Painful Doom: Abyssinia" AAR? This helped me to realize how much enjoyment constant setbacks can give you in terms of roleplaying a game. Also, it is an absolutely amazing AAR ...

 

[Zakath]

Glad to hear I'm not the only compulsive cheater in CK2. Playing as a simple count, or even a duke, I manage to keep my itchy fingers out of the console.....make me a king though, and then try to take away my shiny golden frame and I bring forth the 'cash' and 'kill' commands!

Occasionally I'll use the console to fix the eternal wars or other silliness, even as a Count or Duke, but that's more saving both AI sides from themselves than cheating.

 

[barny]

I don't use cheats, but I tend to reload now and then, when something feels really frustrating, like a genius midas touched heir dies "a natural death" with 25 or so...

 

[unmerged(457738)]

The thing with CK2 is that 95% of the difficulty comes from random events that can easily be labeled as unfair or broken. It's very easy to justify reloading or cheating whenever something doesn't go to plan. It's apparent from many of the strategies and discussions on this forum that most players reload whenever something 'bad' happens. Look at any screenshot and you'll typically see the current ruler who is 60+ years old with a 17 county demesne, one tidy heir ready to take over etc. For a challenge, try finding a single screenshot where the ruler has a regent, or is an indulgent wastrel, or the heir is a 3 year old girl etc.

 

[Mods]

I've stated to never reload no matter what happens and I have a lot more fun as well, just imagine how it would be if every AI reloaded whenever things go really bad for THEM

 

[A_Dane]

My cheats consist mainly of reloading from an earlier save.. which usually ends up ruining my experience in the long run, so I've recently come to the conclusion that I should cut it down to only idiotic situations. (I.e. me being an idiot and gifting away a Kingdom by mistake - Yes this has happened)

 

[Blackluck]

After spending decades getting family members duchy's and such, invariably a female will rise to the throne and end up marrying (non-matrilineally) the fat, low stat count of a rival fat countess and all that planning I did goes poofty in less than a generation. That induces rage and the impulsive mass murder of said fat interlopers.

I usually start a new game after that though, only to see the pattern repeat. It always happens, my dynasty members, no matter how carefully groomed fall apart within a generation or two when left to their own devices. It's very discouraging.

 

[yezhanquan]

I would suggest reloading a save after you've figured out where you went wrong. Going back to fix exactly what you screwed up is a way to learn.