A Call to Fill this Thred with Plausable/Historicle DLC to Paradox

[Minuteman1000]

I was given permission by Veldmaarschalk to post this thread. I am calling for all history lovers to post in this thread their plausible/historical DLC Ideas to let the Paradox Team know that the reason that we play their grand strategy games is because we love history and what was and what could have been. Here is to keeping Grand Strategy historically plausible.

My Idea is that the game should let you play certain pagan kingdoms who must eventually choose either Catholicism or Orthodoxy. One great example was the war between the Teutonic Order and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, they historically became Catholic but what if they turned orthodox and secured the support of Novgorod and possibly Byzantium to push the Catholics back to Central Europe to the doorstep of the Holy Roman Empire and the Italian Powers.

 

[burny26]

A true tengrist mongol dlc!

Republics , Theocracies...

 

[loll92]

I don't see why everyone has to hate on fantasy all the time, Paradox doesn't just have historical strategies. Or do you deliberately turn a blind eye to Warlock: Master of the Arcane, Game of Dwarves, etc?

 

[justin6477]

I don't see why everyone has to hate on fantasy all the time, Paradox doesn't just have historical strategies. Or do you deliberately turn a blind eye to Warlock: Master of the Arcane, Game of Dwarves, etc?

Big difference. Those are fantasy worlds, while CK2 goes to great lengths to try and recreate history.

As for the point of this thread, I generally agree w/ OP's idea for Pagans. Christianity allowed Monarchs much greater control than the Pagan faiths did. Just look at Harald Hardrada who promoted Christianity heavily in Norway, and I believe was the first Norwegian king in a while (if ever) to secure a dynastic heir for the throne.

That's not to say a player couldn't refuse to become Christian, but it should have advantages and disadvantages.

I think there's also a lot to be done w/ the Russian principalities, but that's probably going to be tied into anything related to the Mongols.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Pagan DLC with a special focus on the Mongols/ Tengriism. Since they are the most interesting pagans in this era anyways. Also unlock pagans as playable.

Republic DLC, which introduce a trade system and give the player a new challenge. Can you create a Republican dynasty? Can you make sure your relatives will be voted into office after your death. Can your dynasty dominate your republic? Will you be the next di Medici or Grimaldi?

Church DLC, which introduce the College of Cardinals and make it possible for Catholics to mend the Great Schism. Also make bishoprics playable. Can you ensure your bastard son or your nephew will be your successor? Strategize which of your kinsmen will serve the church and which would marry and produce offspring. Can you create a powerful clerical dynasty?

Norse DLC that introduce a earlier starting date (in the 900) and let you to either lead or defend against the viking raids and invasions. Can you save your home from the wild northmen? Or will you play as a raider yourself and try to get powerful through conquest, pillage or trade? Will you keep to the Old Gods or embrace the Catholic faith? Odin or "Vitekrist", the choice is yours.

 

[Chimix]

For the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, or Kingdom of Lithuania scenario "yarlyk" (sort of tax) over russian principalities could be added. This was case for the great war between Lithuania and Golden Horde. Sure Lithuania lost battle at Vorksla, it was disaster actually, but mongols also never recovered after this battle - if in this battle Lithuania succeded, Lithuania would had taken "yarlyk" from mongols over russian principalities. Tegyvuoja Lietuvos Karalystė!

 

[justin6477]

Pagan DLC with a special focus on the Mongols/ Tengriism. Since they are the most interesting pagans in this era anyways. Also unlock pagans as playable.

Norse DLC that introduce a earlier starting date (in the 900) and let you to either lead or defend against the viking raids and invasions. Can you save your home from the wild northmen? Or will you play as a raider yourself and try to get powerful through conquest, pillage or trade? Will you keep to the Old Gods or embrace the Catholic faith? Odin or "Vitekrist", the choice is yours.

I don't think I ever posted it, but a while back I had an idea about how succession could work for the Pagans considering they weren't necessarily dynastic. Basically it'd be factions meets decadence meets Turkish Succession. You'd need to sway people in the tribe (your underlings and courtiers) by maintaining a low decadence (in this case something based on prestige, military successes, and how much gold you bring in from raids), and the factions would factor in much like they do in the Byzantine Empire with different groups wanting different people to succeed. The same principles could work for Republics I supposed.

 

[yourworstnightm]

I don't think I ever posted it, but a while back I had an idea about how succession could work for the Pagans considering they weren't necessarily dynastic. Basically it'd be factions meets decadence meets Turkish Succession. You'd need to sway people in the tribe (your underlings and courtiers) by maintaining a low decadence (in this case something based on prestige, military successes, and how much gold you bring in from raids), and the factions would factor in much like they do in the Byzantine Empire with different groups wanting different people to succeed. The same principles could work for Republics I supposed.

Yes, one have to remember that pagan is a very generalized term. Basically each culture had it's own tradition regarding succession, in some it worked more as a republic in other cultures it was quite dynastic.

 

[justin6477]

Yes, one have to remember that pagan is a very generalized term. Basically each culture had it's own tradition regarding succession, in some it worked more as a republic in other cultures it was quite dynastic.

I think the general scheme could be applied to all the European pagans, but more historical accuracy is always better. It just seemed to me like a dynasties lasted in more tribal times by being prestigious and seeming powerful. If they weren't, an heir that wasn't deemed strong would never be accepted. Whereas in Christian kingdoms with the concept of "the divine right of kings" we have quite a few unready Kings that made it and their country suffered for it.

Another thing that could add to the faction element is a much lower demesne level since the non-Christians weren't exactly into bureaucracy. This way you'd have to hand out duchies and counties (chieftain and highchieftain?) to followers. This would reflect less centralization of power. And if you lost the King level succession, you'd still be left with your clan or however one wants to phrase it. Perhaps deny King tier titles to Pagans? Leaving them as Dux could make dealing with a larger realm a nightmare.

 

[Chimix]

Lithuanians were mostly dynastic. But succession was rarely primogeniture, seniority was rarther more plausible. Also sometimes most prestigious dynasty member be granted Grand Duke status by late Grand duke in his will. Overall can be said who controls Vilnius is Grand Duke of Lituania Even Švarnas, duke of Volhynia was Grand duke for short time after assasination of King Mindaugas...

 

[Voy]

This must be the 100th thread on this subject.

Have anybody considered a "Kievan Rus" DLC? That would be quite cool.

 

[Jeltz]

A DLC which adds the concept of blood feuds would be nice, this could make playing counts more interesting. Things included could be the ability to pay a weregild to avoid the feud, crown authority removing the possibility to wage blood feud, and the ability to ask your leige to arrest the murderers in cases where blood feuds are not allowed.

 

[grumphie]

dynasty +, with feuds between houses, branches of the family wantign to usurp control over it, and most importantly: control over the marriage of you direct relatives!

a timeline setback. what if the carolingan empire didnt falla part? what if its heirs continued? what if islam never existed? what if the byzantine emprie splintered into warring orthodox kingdoms?

 

[justin6477]

Lithuanians were mostly dynastic. But succession was rarely primogeniture, seniority was rarther more plausible. Also sometimes most prestigious dynasty member be granted Grand Duke status by late Grand duke in his will. Overall can be said who controls Vilnius is Grand Duke of Lituania Even Švarnas, duke of Volhynia was Grand duke for short time after assasination of King Mindaugas...

Hm.... perhaps have raising CA cost prestige? Maybe even that dynastic prestige. It'd allow you to go from open succession to others. Factions would then plot to return you to open succession.

Have anybody considered a "Kievan Rus" DLC? That would be quite cool.

If you mean a Russian based one, yes. I think it'd be paired w/ Mongols though. Alternatively, it could also share w/ a Viking Age DLC since Swedes did establish Kievan Rus.

A DLC which adds the concept of blood feuds would be nice, this could make playing counts more interesting. Things included could be the ability to pay a weregild to avoid the feud, crown authority removing the possibility to wage blood feud, and the ability to ask your leige to arrest the murderers in cases where blood feuds are not allowed.

Ooh, weregild. That'd be lovely. Although I can't see that being in a DLC. Maybe a patch tying into a DLC where bloodfeuds might be a theme. But not as a standalone DLC premise.

a timeline setback. what if the carolingan empire didnt falla part? what if its heirs continued? what if islam never existed? what if the byzantine emprie splintered into warring orthodox kingdoms?

Please no. No further back than 911ad when Rollo gets Normandy. If people don't like the Fatimids blobbing, I can only imagine what they'd think of the Y-U-MAD? Caliphate stretching from Persia to Al-Andalus.

 

[GreatSlayer]

while CK2 goes to great lengths to try and recreate history.

Not really. There's a huge difference between using game mechanics that are influenced by historical events and recreating history. If you had meant the HOI series and EU before EU3, I'd be more inclined to agree. But CKII is NOT trying to recreate history, and if you played it you should know that by now, or you just turn a blind eye when it's convenient to your disposition.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I don't see why everyone has to hate on fantasy all the time, Paradox doesn't just have historical strategies. Or do you deliberately turn a blind eye to Warlock: Master of the Arcane, Game of Dwarves, etc?

I don't think the OP, wants to have a discussion if there should be more 'fantasy/alternative history' DLC's or more 'historical DLC's', so lets not discuss that issue in here. Since as others have pointed out, that has already been discusses in several threads.

The OP want's to discuss, possible 'historical DLC's'.

 

[Jeltz]

A minor DLC could be Zoroastrians. Minor since there is not much left of them at the game start.

 

[LYNCHY]

I'd really like to see an earlier start date, maybe like the start of feudalism with the franks but i must admit after reading this the pagan/lithuanian idea sounds brilliant

 

[Lamahorse]

Revival of Insular Celtic Paganism DLC? :ninja:

A functioning High Kingship mechanic for a High King of Ireland and the Principality of Wales? I'm sure the Kingdom of Ireland was a Norman concept and invention. :ninja: :ninja:

So in a nutshell,

College of Cardinals DLC.
Catholic Pilgrimages (depending where is Catholic) DLC
Insular Celtic madness (Druids, fluid High Kingships),
Vinlandsaga and similar for those four/fifth sons etc

 

[justin6477]

Not really. There's a huge difference between using game mechanics that are influenced by historical events and recreating history. If you had meant the HOI series and EU before EU3, I'd be more inclined to agree. But CKII is NOT trying to recreate history, and if you played it you should know that by now, or you just turn a blind eye when it's convenient to your disposition.

My intention was to speak not to the events that develop in game, but the tableau offered to you in the available start dates. Yes it doesn't take very long for things to get wildly ahistorical, but it's not like anyone will be matching retinues of pew pew lazor jetpack commandos against primitives with little more than sharpened sticks. In my experience that's rather common with certain strategy games.