A big shock. Discrimination

[NervousRon]

I've been playing this game for few years now, on and off, and have always played Soviets. Just the other day, decided to load few other nations and was shocked how big the Focus trees were for most countries. Why is the Soviet tree so small? Wow! This is discrimination! Wow, so disappointing. Paradox, what do you have against Russians?

 

[Longshanks51]

The SU still has its focus tree from the base game. Its going to get a rework in the near future, hopefully.

 

[Herr B.]

The SU focus tree is a problem, that we are all aware of - even the devs.

However, implying "discrimination against Russians" is a wording that I strongly oppose.

By the way, the Italian focus tree is the second focus tree that never got updated, so the Russian are not that lonely.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

@ NervousRon: You are discriminate the Devs, Freelancers, Modeders etc. from the whole Team with your accustation, which are working realy hard on Hoi 4. If you would read correctly the Dev Dirays as well as other Parts in the Forum as well as looking the Developer-Vids then you would know, that Paradox have a long-Time-Strategy for Hoi 4. The Job-Sites, which are Many, can´t be done in 1 Day and get Priotirised.

The first Prios are done with all Patches and DLC´s up to 1.10.4 "Collie" and the DLC "Battle for the Bosperus", which is an intermediate-Step to make the next big Step. And that next big Step is to Rework / Refit / Repair the following Countrys:

- Poland (Focus-Tree etc.)
- all Balkan States incl. the Seperation States like Slowakia [Yougoslav, Hungary, Tsheolowakia etc.] (Focus-Tree etc.)
- Sowjetunion (Main-Country with Focusses etc.)
- other Minors and Majors which we don´t know yet in Focusses etc.
- adding more Countrys with Focusses, R & D etc. (either Skandinavia and the 3 missing Eastsea-States like Luthia)

and many more things. That need time, because the Game get the first real big big big Refit / Rework / Repair in all other Parts too (Agency, Air- and Army R & D as well as Fighting-Things and many more). Therfore the DLC "Battle for Bosperus was needed to beginn with that.

 

[Krautkopf]

The USSR focus tree is due for a rework, no doubt.

 

[Deliberus]

Good bait unless you're actually being serious?

 

[Herr B.]

@Hoi Neuling

I don't think that the 1.11 "Barbarossa" patch will be that large. If we can a SU + Poland rework + Finnish and maybe Iranian focus tree we are very lucky.

Have you any sources for your rework claims?

 

[Krautkopf]

Good bait unless you're actually being serious?

Oh I am quite sure he is absolutely right, and we are after something here!
Comrades, this is clearly a case of anti-Russian racism running rampant (see what I did here?), and it has teamed up with anti-Soviet behaviour and over the top anti-Communism.

A mere focus tree rework can not fix this. We need to mobilize BLM - Bolshevik Lifes Matter!

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Yep, the Ressources the Devs use and the parallel beginning with Patch 1.10 "Collie" incl. DLC "BftP" and many more things.

If you would read the DD´s, watch the Dev-Vids etc. correctly you would know it. Esp. the Announcement in 1.10 that the Devs have switched the big Things to 1.11 "Barbarossa" and the still unnamed DLC.

 

[Herr B.]

If you would read the DD´s, watch the Dev-Vids etc. correctly you would know it. Esp. the Announcement in 1.10 that the Devs have switched the big Things to 1.11 "Barbarossa" and the still unnamed DLC.

I checked the last three DDs, and while they annouced the 1.11 "Barbarossa" patch, they certainly didn't name any specific countries.

If it's that easy for you, maybe you could link your source?

 

[NervousRon]

USSR is a major power in game, lets not compare it to Poland and Italy lol. It should have had a bigger tree from the start

 

[Herr B.]

USSR is a major power in game, lets not compare it to Poland and Italy lol. It should have had a bigger tree from the start

At the start of the game, the USSR had a perfectly reasonable tree. It even included an alternate history scenario.

The meta of focus trees has just seriously shifted.

And Italy is a great power. If you don't accept that, you're just silly.

 

[Question]

I mean, its better than no tree, but lets not kid ourselves, its mainly scripted to follow the historical scenario. The alternative scenario where you go south for iraq/iran/turkey/greece only works till you run into a guarantee by ENG/FRA/USA and am stuck not being able to invade the UK because lol soviet navy.

You dont even have a focus to bring back trotsky, you have to specifically wait till the fourth international without doing the purges, and the AI never does it. Pre-LAR, you could do meme coups with Trotsky but I dont think he was updated for the new mechanics in LAR (and IIRC coups are pretty much pointless in LAR).

ITA has the same problem where their tree is mainly scripted for the historical scenario only. They are both limited to their starting government types and cant switch to anything else via their focus trees and their goals quickly hit a dead end. ITA can create a faction, which is cool and all, but its utterly pointless and nobody ever wants to join it since they have no decisions, events or anything to make people join.

At best, ITA takes the balkans and then...what? Their focus tree just dead ends there IIRC. The ITA AI is scripted to follow the historical scenario only, in any scenario where France doesnt remove the guarantee on Yugoslavia in time, the ITA AI will just suicide by declaring war on Yugoslavia and then get puppeted by France.

Its tiring to see USSR/ITA do the exact same things each game because they have no other options. USSR is always the big bad that -always- ends up fighting Germany regardless of which path they take. ITA is always the idiot who rushes for the Balkans.

I do look forward to an eventual remake for both trees. Being able to change ideologies via the focus tree would open up many more interesting options...imagine an imperial russia teaming up with bourbon france to recreate WW1, or just going off on their own to avenge the japanese-russian war (perhaps by allying with china)....

Unfortunately i suspect any new trees would have serious compatibility issues with existing trees. For example, lets say you have a tree that allows the soviets to go democratic...every anti-soviet focus path in the game is no longer compatible with this scenario...and Paradox hasnt shown any interest in making sure older trees are compatible with newer ones....

 

[Herr B.]

Unfortunately i suspect any new trees would have serious compatibility issues with existing trees. For example, lets say you have a tree that allows the soviets to go democratic...every anti-soviet focus path in the game is no longer compatible with this scenario...and Paradox hasnt shown any interest in making sure older trees are compatible with newer ones....

That is goddamn right, and with every update, it becomes a bigger issue. We are really seeing the limits of the focus tree system here.

Surprisingly, mods like Kaiserreich manage do give the Player way more options, while still keeping everything consistent. However, they archieve this by keeping key factors constant, while the PDX basegame loves to mix them up.

 

[GrandVezir]

We are really seeing the limits of the focus tree system here.

Here's hoping for patch 1.11.2, codename "Making All the National Focus Trees' Logic Compatible with Each Other for the First Time Since 2016."

 

[Hoi Neuling]

@ Herr B: That´s easy. After an smaller to medium Patch with Major-Minor-Countrys (like in TfV with the Commonwealth or BftP with Turkey, Greece and Bulgaria) comes an medium or an big Patch with Majors (like it was in WtT or La Ressistance).

And the Patch-Row incl. DLC´s was the following which did repair Bugfixes, done smaller or medium Refits / Reworks and the first one big Refit / Rework:

a) 1.0 bis 1.2.1 (Base Game): Bugfixing, AI and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Repairs, Content-Repairs, User-Modding-Upgrades, Multiplayer-Upgrades and implementing important missing Features & light Gameplay-Improvements [the first Minor Country get playable in the Game as an Release-Present = Poland]

b) 1.3 bis 1.33 medium Patch (Together vor Victory [TfV]): Bugfixing, AI and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Repairs, User-Modding-Upgrades; the first important Game-Rework with the Commonwealth-States Country-Pack as well as more important missing Features & first important Gameplay-Improvements [the first democratic Main-Minor-Countrys get playable = Australia, Canada, India, New Zeeland and South Africa]

c) 1.4 to 1.4.2 medium Patch (Death or Dishonor [DoD]): Bugfixing, AI and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Repairs, User-Modding-Upgrades, Audio-Upgrades; the second important Game-Rework with the first Balkan States Country-Pack as well as more important missing Features & second important Gamplay-Improvements [the first neutral to fashist Main-Minor-Countrys and an another democrtatic Main-Minor-Country get playable = Romania, Hungary, Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia]

d) 1.5 to 1.5.4 medium to big Patch (Waking the Tiger [WtT]): Bugfixing, AI and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Repairs, User-Modding-Upgrades, Audio-Upgrades; the first big important Game-Rework with Asiatic-States and 1 European-State as well as the first big important missing Features & Gamplay-Improvements [the first Major-States get better playable and their Warlords get playable = China, Japan, Germany, Menguko, Mandshuko as well as Gunaxi-Clique, Shanxi and other Warlords from China]

e) 1.6 to 1.6.2 medium to big Patch (Man the Guns [MtG]): Bugfixing, AI and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Repairs, User-Modding-Upgrades; the second big important Game-Rework with democratic States and 2 new Maijor-Minor-States as well as second big important missing Features & Gameplay-Improvements [the second Major-States get better playable and more neutral to democratic Main-Minor-Countrys get playable = USA, UK, Mexiko, Netherlands; the first nessecarry Game-Improvement was done: complete Naval-Refit with R & D, Buildup, Instructions etc. to make the Navy playable]

f) 1.7 to 1.8.2 small to medium Patches to upgrade the Game to new 64-Bit-Standard (Base Game): Bugfixing, AI and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performacne-Repairs, User-Modding-Upgrades, important missing Features & Gamplay Improvements [64-Bit Upgrade of the fully Game incl. existing DLC´s as new Standard]

g) 1.9 to 1.9.3 medium o big Patch (La Ressitance [LaR]): Bugfixing, AI / Graphics and UI-Repairs, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Repairs, Audio-Upgrade, User-Modding-Upgrades; the third big important Game-Rework with demorcatic States and 2 more Major-Minor-States as well as third big important missing Features & Gamplay-Improvements [the third Major-State and his Spliting get better playable and more neutral to fashist Main-Minor-Countrys get playable = France, Spain, Portugal; the second nessecarry Game-Improvement was done: complete Agengy with Agents, Collaboration Gouvernments and Intel-System as well as Occopied Zone-Management]

h) 1.10 to 1.10.3 small Patches (Battle for the Bosperus [BftP]: last nessecarry Bugfixings, AI & UI-Reparis, Database & Ballance-Repairs, Stability & Performance-Reparis to the furthermore improved User-Modding-Upgrades, Audio-Upgrades, important missing Features & Gameplay-Improvements [the missing neutral to fashist / democratic Major-Minor-Country get playable = Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece]

The red marked Patch and the small size of it shows that the Devs didn´t invest much in the existing Base Game and doing an big Base Game Refit / Rework.

 

[Vin55]

@ NervousRon: You are discriminate the Devs, Freelancers, Modeders etc. from the whole Team with your accustation, which are working realy hard on Hoi 4. If you would read correctly the Dev Dirays as well as other Parts in the Forum as well as looking the Developer-Vids then you would know, that Paradox have a long-Time-Strategy for Hoi 4. The Job-Sites, which are Many, can´t be done in 1 Day and get Priotirised.

The first Prios are done with all Patches and DLC´s up to 1.10.4 "Collie" and the DLC "Battle for the Bosperus", which is an intermediate-Step to make the next big Step. And that next big Step is to Rework / Refit / Repair the following Countrys:

- Poland (Focus-Tree etc.)
- all Balkan States incl. the Seperation States like Slowakia [Yougoslav, Hungary, Tsheolowakia etc.] (Focus-Tree etc.)
- Sowjetunion (Main-Country with Focusses etc.)
- other Minors and Majors which we don´t know yet in Focusses etc.
- adding more Countrys with Focusses, R & D etc. (either Skandinavia and the 3 missing Eastsea-States like Luthia)

and many more things. That need time, because the Game get the first real big big big Refit / Rework / Repair in all other Parts too (Agency, Air- and Army R & D as well as Fighting-Things and many more). Therfore the DLC "Battle for Bosperus was needed to beginn with that.

Baltic Sea.

 

[safe-keeper]

It's obvious discrimination. It's even worse when you try to play as Africa. Most of the countries aren't even playable, you have to play as a colonial power and releaase them. Once you do, you find they have no focus trees and next to no industry. PDX plz.

 

[Deliberus]

It's obvious discrimination. It's even worse when you try to play as Africa. Most of the countries aren't even playable, you have to play as a colonial power and releaase them. Once you do, you find they have no focus trees and next to no industry. PDX plz.

Oh man, it's almost as if the 20th century was dominated by European colonial powers and gaints like India and China were brought to their knees. Who woulda thunk...

 

[xtfoster]

I checked the last three DDs, and while they annouced the 1.11 "Barbarossa" patch, they certainly didn't name any specific countries.

If it's that easy for you, maybe you could link your source?

I think the poster was combining 2 different topics in his response.
1) Yes we know that the next big patch/DLC is codenamed Barbarossa, which leads to the assumption that it is focused on the USSR.
2) The Roadmap refers to updating NF Trees from day 1 (8 total including Poland). It also refers to providing NF trees for every country. Of the starting 8, only the USSR, Italy, and Poland have not been reworked as of yet.