A balance feature that could give meaning back to light mechs.

[kvetcha]

Mission design and economic pressure

This is one reason I think heavier mechs should require greater upkeep. It's not a 'punishment' - heavies/assaults enable the player to tackle more lucrative contracts. That is the reward.

Why would you ever use anything but your most heavily armored mechs?

 

[Whiskiz]

Drop limits are an awful, gamey way to control player mech selection. Why does out ship, that carries all our stuff, that we live in, only let us drop X tons of mech? Reasons.

This may be a crazy concept, but in a game - gameplay > realism

"not having to go to the toilet every few hours and during a mission is awful, why do we not have to go to the toilet every now and then? Reasons"

That lights and mediums are very effective in skirmish games says a lot for how well HBS has avoided the 'bigger is always better' problem.

Actually, all that shows is how tonnage limits work, how tonnage limits or something else opens up the gameplay options for lights and mediums to shine. Lights and mediums are only effective in skirmish because you can't just field 4 assaults etc - guaranteed they wouldn't be considered nearly as effective if we were able to see them go up against a lance of heavies/assaults..

 

[Rhym]

How exactly is something "not as viable as"?

. . . it's either viable, or it's not. It may be suboptimal, but that's a whole different yardstick. A Light 'Mech is viable and useful, it simply is going to require a different approach and not trying to use it as you would a Heavy.

Well semantics regarding if viability is on a spectrum or not aside, the difference between a light and an assault can't be overcome as simply as "using the light right". Cost-effectiveness (whether it is c-bills or drop weight) is a large part of what make lights playable, but neither matters in this game. Also, the missions in Battletech tend more towards blowing shit up and fighting off a bigger force of mechs etc. Not super suited for light mechs. This thread exists for a reason.

 

[crkessel]

Bigger is pretty much always better. The only real way to force smaller mechs into later stages of a game would be, as others have already noted, to have tonnage limits on missions. Megamek, if I recall correctly, restricts generated missions to certain lance weights. So if you're running a Megamek campaign, you can't just deploy all assault mechs all the time. You have to have a mixture of lances of different weights to fulfill various contracts.

Don't know if this game has it. It'd be nice if it did. Otherwise, you'll have to have self imposed rules. One of the table top books, Campaign Operations, describes bonuses for certain lance compositions and gives those lance types special names (Force Lance, Command Lance, Fire Lance, etc). I was thinking I might try to always honor those restrictions so my lances are somewhat more "thematic" rather than just mix/max optimized.

 

[Kereminde]

Well semantics regarding if viability is on a spectrum or not aside, the difference between a light and an assault can't be overcome as simply as "using the light right". Cost-effectiveness (whether it is c-bills or drop weight) is a large part of what make lights playable, but neither matters in this game. Also, the missions in Battletech tend more towards blowing shit up and fighting off a bigger force of mechs etc. Not super suited for light mechs. This thread exists for a reason.

Ehhh, I dunno. This thread keeps cropping up, everywhere, and I keep thinking "there are things Light and Medium 'Mechs are intended for, and running balls-first into an Atlas isn't it".

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Ehhh, I dunno. This thread keeps cropping up, everywhere, and I keep thinking "there are things Light and Medium 'Mechs are intended for, and running balls-first into an Atlas isn't it".

In some respects the roles for light/medium mechs resemble lighter armor in 20th century warfare. I’m sure they would generally work well in the designed conditions, but none of these mechs is designed for a 4 mech mercenary squad (lance). I’m all for mech changes that enhance the gameplay, but the idea that mechs designed for use in a combined arms environment must all be equally useful to my Merc company is insane. Doesn’t mean I won’t try to *make* them all useful

 

[Lunatic Pathos]

Drop limits are an awful, gamey way to control player mech selection. Why does out ship, that carries all our stuff, that we live in, only let us drop X tons of mech? Reasons.

Mission design and economic pressure can encourage players to mix up what they use without blatant designer fiat.

Well, it depends on the capabilities of the Leopard. I'm assuming in lore it is basically as competent as it needs to be (fuel for days). The further and longer (or more maneuverable) it needs to fly, the less tonnage it can bring along.

For a semi-realistically capable dropship, drop limits are actually very realistic, though it should be mission profile dependant.

Consider argo to drop point, station keeping, pickup, then return to Argo. The more weight you carry in the Leopard, the more fuel everything costs, and at some point there's a maximum you can carry.

 

[fodzilla]

The only real way to force smaller mechs into later stages of a game would be, as others have already noted, to have tonnage limits on missions.

Tonnage limits are one option, but to be honest I though MechCommander's other idea was perfect - lighter mechs got better sensors. It may not be lore/TT-faithful but it really emphasised their scout role and made it worth bringing them along, and can be handwaved away through some explanation about bigger engines interfering with the electronics.

 

[Zythen1975]

I can see keeping a solid medium mech the whole way. With a + initiative pilot you can have a high phase mech that is not so likely to be dumped in 1 salvo or the Raven when it comes out.

Or keeping 4 urban mechs because that is the best lance ever.

 

[Camicon Dachass]

I can see keeping a solid medium mech the whole way. With a + initiative pilot you can have a high phase mech that is not so likely to be dumped in 1 salvo or the Raven when it comes out.

Or keeping 4 urban mechs because that is the best lance ever.

4 Urbies, for when you need to take down a company of Assault 'Mechs, and you don't want to break a sweat.

 

[Whiskiz]

I can see keeping a solid medium mech the whole way. With a + initiative pilot you can have a high phase mech that is not so likely to be dumped in 1 salvo or the Raven when it comes out.

Or keeping 4 urban mechs because that is the best lance ever.

Ok, so you get to move a medium in a light phase, what are you going to do with that against multiple lances of heavies, assaults and death vehicles?

 

[FatherJohnO'Neill]

light mechs get a range/view extension. they see farther and can detect farther than meds/hvys/aslts. this was explained by Mitch/Mike in an earlier dev stream. it was to make lights more useful than previously, even without senslock. but please, by all means continue to handicap yourselves versus me in pvp!

 

[Kereminde]

Ok, so you get to move a medium in a light phase, what are you going to do with that against multiple lances of heavies, assaults and death vehicles?

Reserve to the last, then use that initiative phase to escape.

 

[Jamey]

Eck used his Jenner well, keeping it moving at max speed and using reserve for it liberally. Seeing that, I believe that lights will have a role in this game if you want them.

I’m looking forward to kitting out a Firestarter with 3 ML and 6 SL and using it for most of the game. I believe that it will smoke nearly any mech it gets behind as its Alpha is nearly that of a HBK-4P. Combined with 6/9/6 movement, it will be fun.

 

[mjbroekman]

I'd be surprised if this hasn't been mentioned deeper in the thread, but it hasn't cropped up in several pages...

Light / Medium mech + Sensor Lock ==> Sensor Lock for days...
- paired with Master Tactician for the initiative bonus and you can either reserve and double move or always be moving first.
- paired with Ace Pilot and you can SL and then move (unless they changed that) or (Mod Edit: Language)

Paired with any 2x LRM mech, you have stability damage for days (especially when you get +stab LRMs). LRMs have a max range beyond visual range.
Paired with a sniper on a ridgeline, you are giving that sniper LoS to mechs beyond their normal sight range. AC2s have a max range well beyond visual range.

Light mechs need to move, find targets at the edge of their sensor range, sensor lock them, and let the rest of your lance pummel them from range.
Mediums go from being front-line in early missions to being snipers / support in late game.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Eck used his Jenner well, keeping it moving at max speed and using reserve for it liberally. Seeing that, I believe that lights will have a role in this game if you want them.

I’m looking forward to kitting out a Firestarter with 3 ML and 6 SL and using it for most of the game. I believe that it will smoke nearly any mech it gets behind as its Alpha is nearly that of a HBK-4P. Combined with 6/9/6 movement, it will be fun.

Eck did a good job with his Jenner. Not to mention he wasn't running it stock either. Which as far as I could tell, it wasn't rocking Locust armor. He had stripped off the SRM-4 in favor of maximum armor on it. Which allows it to fill the role of fast striker, a spotter with endurance and an overall tough little mech to destroy. It was basically a Wolfhound minus the Large laser, that moved faster, jumped and had maximum armor.

 

[Tankqull]

That one . . . that's an intriguing idea. We'd need something more for Rep to do right now than what we know of (price control, mission lockout).

would be simple, tie the rep to the amount of armor and ammunition that will be taken by the contract giver... less rep much more cost on the mercs side...

 

[Lunatic Pathos]

Eck would have failed the optional objective without that Jenner, as well. That mission also addressed the difficulty worries pretty well, too.

 

[Jamey]

Eck did a good job with his Jenner. Not to mention he wasn't running it stock either. Which as far as I could tell, it wasn't rocking Locust armor. He had stripped off the SRM-4 in favor of maximum armor on it. Which allows it to fill the role of fast striker, a spotter with endurance and an overall tough little mech to destroy. It was basically a Wolfhound minus the Large laser, that moved faster, jumped and had maximum armor.

You actually don’t need an analogy. He converted his Jenner into a JR7-F, which is my favorite light mech in TT.

 

[Col. Darkheart]

I will postpone final judgement, but I really hope there will be more uses for lights than we have seen so far.
Missions where speed is essential for example and an assault would simply be too slow.
E-War might also have a significant impact. I hope not all classes can mount the tech, which would give lights a distinct role.