A balance feature that could give meaning back to light mechs.

[_Sohei_]

A better balance feature would be teaching players how to use their light mechs more effectively.

There should also be a large number of light mechs seen in game to show that they are by far the most common weight class of mechs in lore. Obtaining new light mechs and light mech parts should be easy. That could also provide some degree of financial safety net in case of several mechs getting destroyed early on which could be useful for game balance.

 

[Sunthios]

One way also is to include an optional challenges (like fable 1) which would increase mission rewards either through salvage credits or reputation(probably reputation) or to make it similar to the actual battletech universe some sort of version of the clan bidding system where two clans would bid against each other with how many (in thier case how small) forces they would use.

 

[Thalynos]

One way also is to include an optional challenges (like fable 1) which would increase mission rewards either through salvage credits or reputation(probably reputation) or to make it similar to the actual battletech universe some sort of version of the clan bidding system where two clans would bid against each other with how many (in thier case how small) forces they would use.

we're not clanners though... and we're not in clan space. The inner sphere, to my recollection, generally thought the clans were amazingly dumb for conducting their wars they way that they do in terms of zellbrigen stuff.

 

[Whiskiz]

Basically the title. [Mod Edit: Pre-merge the title was " Lights/Mediums for anything more than gimmick missions and early game?"]



They don't seem to do anything special (and not just in terms of damage, but utility etc)

I mean even when building your lance for a mission, it gives your lance a rating and that rating increases the heavier you build your lance - so even the game recognizes and accounts for the fact that spamming heavies/assaults is the superior option 9/10 times..

Anyone else believe mech progression shouldn't just be linear throw more tonnage at the enemy?

That either we should be restricted in someway like tonnage limits, which actually opens up alot more options - or lights/mediums should be made more useful somehow (without just slapping more damage potential on them and calling it a day)

Some way to do more than just transition to heavier and heavier mechs.

 

[Jamey]

My experience with the beta was that fast mechs are useful in skirmishes.

So far, I have not seen any streamers use them well. I also haven't seen any streamers fielding a good light mech (basically, Jenner or Firestarter).

I'm waiting and seeing how it actually works in the campaign. I really hope that a well built light will be effective, but I'll have to wait and see.

 

[Kereminde]

Basically the title.

They don't seem to do anything special (and not just in terms of damage, but utility etc)

I mean even when building your lance for a mission, it gives your lance a rating and that rating increases the heavier you build your lance - so even the game recognizes and accounts for the fact that spamming heavies/assaults is the superior option 9/10 times..

Anyone else believe mech progression shouldn't just be linear throw more tonnage at the enemy?

That either we should be restricted in someway like tonnage limits, which actually opens up alot more options - or lights/mediums should be made more useful somehow (without just slapping more damage potential on them and calling it a day)

Some way to do more than just transition to heavier and heavier mechs.

Lights are every bit as useful as they need to be so long as rear armor remains the weakest side, and Lights can get behind people Mediums are undervalued, since that weight class includes the Centurion and Wolverine (two very good frontline fighters) and some pretty decent heavy-hitters, let alone what someone can whip up in a 'Mech Lab.

I'm pretty sure trying to keep a balanced Lance is going to be a key, or once you get the 'Mech Bay space keeping a specialist fast-attack lance.

 

[Whiskiz]

Sure they can be useful, sure there are good lights and mediums but the key question is - is it better to bring them, over something with double the weaponry and double the armor mid to late game?

I seriously doubt it and so does the game - going off the lance rating and how progression currently is.

If you're looking at a 5 skull contract, would you ever even get near that rating putting a light or medium into the deck and how much work would they have to get done in a higher end mission, to justify them? Alot more than a backstab here and a backstab there.

And again, a light or medium over a heavy? an assault?

 

[Camicon Dachass]

I'll probably keep a Kintaro boating SRM4s in my end-game lance. SRM boats need some speed to close distance, and I don't think there are any Heavies or Assaults who have that speed and can boat SRMs like the Kintaro can.

 

[Setanta777]

It's playstyle dependent. So far the streamers have mostly been playing mid-short range skirmish style with an occasional sniper for fire support. That's not an ideal playstyle for lights and would require a lot of finesse to keep them viable. Check out some of the beta backer streams and you can see some excellent uses for lights (especially firestarters). The can play an integral roll as scouts for lances with snipers and missile boats. If you take advantage of initiative orders, ace pilot, and sensor lock they can be a serious threat even to heavy units. Again, it's all about playstyle and while they are more difficult to keep alive, they still have their place on the battlefield.

 

[FireStoat]

for the 1v1 skirmish game, I'd imagine mechs of every tonnage would be useful for a player to decide how to make their lance for the match. For the campaign, not so much. It appears that the bigger mech you bring, the better off you end up in the fighting. Maybe we'll see something surprising involving light and smaller medium mechs after time passes.

 

[Kereminde]

Sure they can be useful, sure there are good lights and mediums but the key question is - is it better to bring them, over something with double the weaponry and double the armor mid to late game?

I seriously doubt it and so does the game - going off the lance rating and how progression currently is.

If you're looking at a 5 skull contract, would you ever even get near that rating putting a light or medium into the deck and how much work would they have to get done in a higher end mission, to justify them?

And again, a light or medium over a heavy? an assault?

Depends on the mission profile, depends on the 'Mechs we're discussion. Sure, I'd totally take a Locust over a Cicada, or a Thunderbolt over a Zeus. But I'd take a Trebuchet over a Catapult, mostly because I don't think I could *find* a Catapult.

 

[Jamey]

***** SPOILER WARNING *****
Eck is using a Jenner in a campaign mission right now:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/eck-streams-battletech.1090602/

We'll see how he does with it.

 

[Lunatic Pathos]

For the campaign, probably not. The nature of AI is that the main way to increase difficulty is to throw more enemies at you. In that case, it is a war of attrition and you're not going to avoid getting hit all the time, especially with how evasion works.

However, in skirmishes balanced by c-bill, where your enemies aren't outright superior in the forces they bring, and initiative is more important, lights and mediums are important, useful, and necessary (given the c-bill limits).

 

[Pyske]

I fully expect to be bringing medium and possibly even light mechs through the end of the game, as I like the tactical options that jump jets provide.

I expect that the later in the game you get, the more you need to be asymmetric in your damage. Get in stand-up brawls with too many assault mechs, and you'll be constantly under repairs, even if you manage to win.

Lights and Mediums provide a lot more options for hitting without being hit in return.

 

[Rhym]

From what I've seen, not really. Not without drop limits (why they work in skirmish). You could increase the difficulty of the campaign by forcing yourself to use a light mech, but no matter how much you abuse initiative for "double rounds" it's just too squishy and lightly armed to be considered as viable as simply using 4 large mechs. But it is certainly viable as playing on hard mode

Ideally I would have liked to see maybe Leopard upgrades to increase drop weights maybe capping at 300ish instead of having no drop weight limit. That would force you to actually use the full range of mech sizes in the game. I know, I know "BUT ATLAS SCOUT LANCES *hurrdurr*". I'd rather have a game that makes use of all the mechs.

 

[Whiskiz]

I fully expect to be bringing medium and possibly even light mechs through the end of the game, as I like the tactical options that jump jets provide.

I expect that the later in the game you get, the more you need to be asymmetric in your damage. Get in stand-up brawls with too many assault mechs, and you'll be constantly under repairs, even if you manage to win.

Lights and Mediums provide a lot more options for hitting without being hit in return.

You can put jump jets on literally any mech in this and all you need to go with it to be decent is higher mobility which some heavier mechs can have.

In a perfect world in a perfect environment you can kite all day with lights and mediums, hit n run from range, los using initiative/reserve etc - but some things like story situations, objectives, map terrain and enemy numbers and loadouts will make things far from perfect for that, in the majority of the missions you come across.

Not to mention doing alot less damage with lighter mechs so having to do alot more - perfect scenario or not. And not being able to get hit back nearly as much.

It's a great and fun fantasy, but the game is just designed for going heavier and heavier and i don't think that fantasy will hold up for very long, definitely not end game. Mark my words..

 

[Kereminde]

From what I've seen, not really. Not without drop limits (why they work in skirmish). You could increase the difficulty of the campaign by forcing yourself to use a light mech, but no matter how much you abuse initiative for "double rounds" it's just too squishy and lightly armored to be considered as viable as simply using 4 large mechs. But it is certainly viable as playing on hard mode

Ideally I would have liked to see maybe Leopard upgrades to increase drop weights maybe capping at 300ish instead of having no drop weight limit. That would force you to actually use the full range of mech sizes in the game. I know, I know "BUT ATLAS SCOUT LANCES *hurrdurr*". I'd rather have a game that makes use of all the mechs.

How exactly is something "not as viable as"?

. . . it's either viable, or it's not. It may be suboptimal, but that's a whole different yardstick. A Light 'Mech is viable and useful, it simply is going to require a different approach and not trying to use it as you would a Heavy.

 

[Jade_Rook]

I can see the faster mediums (Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Kintaro) being viable through the entire game. The fast lights might be dependent on mission profile and personal playstyle.

Every Battletech/Mechwarrior game has ended up with a race to assault mechs to one degree or another. I think HBS has done a great job trying to avoid it, but it is a hard goal to achieve and requires playstyles that many likely won't enjoy. That isn't really a problem. Different people enjoy games differently. That lights and mediums are very effective in skirmish games says a lot for how well HBS has avoided the 'bigger is always better' problem.

 

[wundergoat]

From what I've seen, not really. Not without drop limits (why they work in skirmish). You could increase the difficulty of the campaign by forcing yourself to use a light mech, but no matter how much you abuse initiative for "double rounds" it's just too squishy and lightly armed to be considered as viable as simply using 4 large mechs. But it is certainly viable as playing on hard mode

Ideally I would have liked to see maybe Leopard upgrades to increase drop weights maybe capping at 300ish instead of having no drop weight limit. That would force you to actually use the full range of mech sizes in the game. I know, I know "BUT ATLAS SCOUT LANCES *hurrdurr*". I'd rather have a game that makes use of all the mechs.

Drop limits are an awful, gamey way to control player mech selection. Why does out ship, that carries all our stuff, that we live in, only let us drop X tons of mech? Reasons.

Mission design and economic pressure can encourage players to mix up what they use without blatant designer fiat.

 

[Kereminde]

I'd lean more towards getting a rep bonus for dropping lighter than the difficulty recommends, but then that'd be gamed so hard it would be really unbalancing.