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Uhhhh what? Naval bombers being less effective vs capital ships fleets than submarines is working as intended? They barely do any damage at all.
I think HOI3 is a GREAT game, but sugarcoating the mess that is naval and air warfare is just wrong.
I'm sure Naval bombers ARE intended to do better vs capital ships fleets than submarines. Anti-Air not working AT ALL is working as designed? What about interceptors not being a serious threat to unescorted bombers? Or bombers doing puny strength damage to ground forces? Those are bugs, they are not working as designed.
I am not advocating that any of the forces mentioned above do supreme damage, just realistic damage, which is not the case at all right now.
Also, sugarcoating as working as designed the fact that the AI puts their best units on borders with allies, or puppets obstructing the supply lines of their overlords or units running out of supply when peace is concluded (without tapping into their 30 day supply) is not correct in my view.
Well, it has been one month since the release, and I choose to be optimistic when reading development posts. If any of the problems I listed are not fixed when they have been reported on the forum by numerous people, after one month, then the patch would be disappointing.
However, I feel that all of the problems above WILL be fixed, as will be all the bugs reported on the forum. Because come on, when some bugs have been known for 1 month, there is plenty of time to fix them.
The history for the release of beta version software from Paradox for HOI is well established. When I first started playing with HOI 1 and 2 it used to drive me absolutely crazy. This time I bought the game fully knowing it would be flawed (just from past experience) but that Paradox would eventually patch it into release version. Im not going to flame them this time around unless the patching work doesnt keep going until the majority would consider it in a "retail release" state.
Frankly - Im glad I've held off on buying this product. I was a big Paradox apologist upon release of this game - but having read what I've read re: the myriad problems facing this game - im flabbergasted this was rushed to release in the condition it was. It seems much worse that HOI1 and HOI2 were upon release.
How did all of these very common issues/complaints/playability problems get past the playtesters and the design team as a whole?
What would have been the harm of delaying release 2 more months?
More importantly - what lesson has Paradox learned from all this?
I'm still going to buy HOI3 - but at this point im waiting a few weeks after the new patch comes out to see if its worth it. If the problems persist on the level they exist now - I'll wait to buy until after patch 1.3 - and so on and so on until HOI4 comes out.
Until then, I'll continue to enjoy HOI2.
How did all of these very common issues/complaints/playability problems get past the playtesters and the design team as a whole?
What would have been the harm of delaying release 2 more months?
More importantly - what lesson has Paradox learned from all this?
I'm still going to buy HOI3 - but at this point im waiting a few weeks after the new patch comes out to see if its worth it. If the problems persist on the level they exist now - I'll wait to buy until after patch 1.3 - and so on and so on until HOI4 comes out.
Until then, I'll continue to enjoy HOI2.
Well, if 1 month after bugs are known, and they are still not fixed, then saying that fixing reported bugs is rather misleading. Maybe adding a "some" before reported to make it "fixing some reporting bugs" would be more accurate.
The game was still quite playable and fun. I'm glad Paradox is committed to working this stuff out, but holding off the purchase doesn't really hurt anybody but yourself if you do indeed intend to buy the game at some point.
That's not true. I'll do the same with the next Pi game. It's called voting with your feet. If more customers would do it companies would be more likely to invest in quality. And I would not even be bothered to pay a couple of bucks more if the game comes out fully featured and bug free. Releasing it buggy is a pain on everyone. The customer has the carrot in front of the head but already paid without getting to eat it just lick it. The company gets trashed and a bad reputation and we waste precious electrons discussing something that shouldn't be a problem to start with.
I'm quite the opposite, I've owned the game since day one and have been fortunate enough to have gotten in two full games along with about 6 or 7 experiments. I've had 1 CTD, no broken saves, decent speed and performance so obviously my judgment of the game is going to differ greatly from yours. I haven't heard of many people who couldn't get past the loading screen, generally that equates to being below the requirements needed to run the game. Double check your specs, just because you bought a new PC doesn't mean it's up to par.
As for my comment, it's actually true if you go look through all the bug reports and complaint threads. Diplomacy, theater and production AI, supply, officers, AA, naval forces, invisible units, ect. are the type of things you see constantly on this forum, none of them are broken, however they certainly aren't working the way they should. Broken is something that inhibits game play from progressing, none of these issues hinder your game from progressing though they do take away much of the enjoyment and add much more stress then it should. Performance issues, stability, memory leak are all things that are broken as they do inhibit the game from progressing. Look across the forums and you'll see there are only a handful of truly broken aspects and a TON of that aren't working like they should.
If you want to call me a fanboy or sheep or whatever go right ahead, I've enjoyed HoI 3 and I'll enjoy it much more after 1.2 comes out. If you have problems well, I'm sorry for you and your really should push to get help the devs and moderators here are some of the best and helping out people with problems. However I must say coming to the patch thread and saying you're going to boycott the game isn't the best strategy to get your problems heard. Constructive criticism and asking for assistance is great and the best things you can do on this forum, making threats and pointless debates doesn't gain anyone anything, especially not yourself.
Indeed - im in agony. Damn this self-inflicted suffering!
I play extremely casually mostly because I dont have much time to play. Typically one '36 campaign takes me about 8 months to finish.
So Im more on the side of having a near-perfect product from the start so that my first experience truly gives me a feel for how the game plays and functions. So considering the time I dedicate to playing is rare and precious (to me at least) - I'd rather spend it as a satisfied customer than an unpaid gametester/bug reporter.
If I were younger and had more free time to game - then Id probably jump in at the release. But unfortunately Im a little older and my time is alot less "free." So for now - I'll happily wait and just read up via the boards...
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Buying a game is kind of like buying stocks. You're investing in something you know will be worth something now, but more importantly, in the future. Think of it as sponsoring the company and product.
I'll sometimes buy a game simply because I like the company or genre, even if I am not sure how much play time I will have on it simply because I want to do my part to entice future development of products of a similar nature and endorse the companies that produce the games I like...
If you think of your game purchases like this you will rarely feel you made a bad purchase and you will see the wisdom in buying a complex game like HoI3 from a known product supporting developer like PI...
I'll sometimes buy a game simply because I like the company or genre, even if I am not sure how much play time I will have on it simply because I want to do my part to entice future development of products of a similar nature and endorse the companies that produce the games I like...
If you think of your game purchases like this you will rarely feel you made a bad purchase and you will see the wisdom in buying a complex game like HoI3 from a known product supporting developer like PI...
I, too, am hoping that my nocturnal lifestyle will let me patch tonight...
But as for the state of the game - I actually derive an odd sort of fun from the poorly-polished state of paradox games (although not this one, because my poor quadcore runs the current version rather less well than would a steam-powered babbage engine, so long as it was single-core). I fondly remember playing China in an early version of EU II, and having enormous power, with no real events to get in my way... I wouldn't want every game to go like that, obviously, but I don't mind playing a few silly games while I wait for the first big bugfix patch to hit.
But as for the state of the game - I actually derive an odd sort of fun from the poorly-polished state of paradox games (although not this one, because my poor quadcore runs the current version rather less well than would a steam-powered babbage engine, so long as it was single-core). I fondly remember playing China in an early version of EU II, and having enormous power, with no real events to get in my way... I wouldn't want every game to go like that, obviously, but I don't mind playing a few silly games while I wait for the first big bugfix patch to hit.
How am I sugar coating it when I call it "weird" and "strange"? I'm saying it's not a bug. That's not the same as saying I think it's a good decision. If something is working as designed, then it's not a bug, regardless of whether the design is good or not. Therefore, complaining about it as a "bug" is misdirected.
Having been through every game launch since EU, i can tell you that this is not the case. Both HoI and HoI 2 had their share of very big problems on release.
The difference here is probably the AI theaters and supply system, which are new, and which will need time to mature properly.
That said, i'd hold off a little longer on buying it, depending on how 1.2 turns out. That way, when you buy it, you'll be able to jump straight into a (relatively) trouble free game
I dont believe we are allowed to speak about the beta testers really (seem to recall the mods cracking down on earlier beta complaint threads), but i think its safe to say that all these things didnt pass everyone by (that would, frankly, be impossible).
Only Paradox could answer that question. Probably a financial issue, obligations towards others, etc.
Seeing that this is a completely normal "Paradox standard", i'd say nothing really. That sounds harsh perhaps, but this is basically how its been done for 10 years.
That would probably be best. Im sure that while 1.2 will fix many things, there will still be more than enough to fix / improve for a later 1.3. Keep watching the forum for feedback
If you are expecting a WW2 simulation dont buy it now. Wait for the forum reviews after every new patch. Otherwise, as a strategic game interface with no realistic type rules its fun to play (except for the the memory leaks and saved game crashes) and just be random, but Im still waiting for the real fixing patch so I can start some serious MP gaming.
Loss of a bunch of revenue?
That the more players playing the game instead of testers, the sooner the bugs would be identified and thus fixed?
But is that really true?
Whether you buy the game last month or a year from now, Paradox gets paid once per game sold. That payment funds all the work they do on the product -- whether before release or later in a patch.
The only question is one of timing. But I don't have the feeling that paradox is sqeeking by month to month and that they needed the money now to stay afloat, instead of one or two months hence. The impression is that they have sufficient cash reserves to fund development on this and other games.
If anything, waiting a few months to get better reviews and word of month would result in more games sold and more money for the same development effort.
I'm pretty sure paradox doesn't release unfinished games on purpose because it needs the money. I think they release games they think are done. But they have a culture that tolerates greatly imperfect execution as long as the ideas are right. Most likely this culture is created by the personalities of their management, maybe Johan. As they grow into a more mature company and expand their base beyond die hard fans who are pleased just to get a game with these ideas in their hands, I expect this will eventually change and they will embrace a culture of excellence. Hopefully sooner.
It's only 5:39 am in Stockholm right now. Maybe I should sleep a bit then get up super super early...
No one really knows for sure if it's even going to be released today, after all Johan did say if all goes well. If a game breaker pops up then most likely you won't see it until Monday, maybe tomorrow if Johan and crew and feeling generous.
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