91st Air Landing Division (LL) balance

[RSW2002]

Is there a particular reason why the StuH gets only 1000m range on its gun when every other anti infantry tank in the same price range (so far) gets 1200m? Churchill V, M1A3(105)W and the Beute Cromwell all have 1200m, despite getting additional anti infantry capability with extra MGs.

EDIT: Note to self: Don't post when dead tired after lots of deck tweaking. *facepalm*

The lack of range on the StuG III really hurts Luftlande badly. You don't get a lot of tanks, the cheap ones you get are not even worth the price or come in too late and the one decent tank you get has low availability, gets outranged even in Phase B and has a gimped command version (less side armor I get, that's reflected on the model, but less front armor and a worse MG?).

 

[evilcat]

Panzer '35f is interesting if you can use it only fighting enemy infantry, or armoured vehicles. As support vehicle.

Stug 3G is overpriced, it isnt as good as Churchill mk7, and it was cheap and numerous construction which is not represented in game.
Panzers is not a luftbros thing, so no good options here, but at least give something cheap and fair.

Maybe there are some more old french tanks who ware repurposed.

 

[Edraii]

I have no idea how to justify the price of the french baguettes, I feel nothing but disdain for those two tanks. I died a little every time I saw one of their shells bounce of a halftrack, a HALFTRACK. I suppose it could be useful against a deck that has no armored support but even airborne gets locusts (iirc) and even those are probably a better choice than these "Tanks", at least they would be fast enough to flank. Against 3rd or 15th they are nothing but points better spent elsewhere.

The 35R is slower than churchills (13kph vs 15-18) and has an utterly horrible 4ap3he gun and a single MG. It is in no way maneuverable enough to flank anything and it has neither the armor nor the gun to fight anything other than halftrack head on, this is not worth 55 points. I can only justify it's existence if the opponent forgot both is armor and AT support at home. The 39H is a bit better but only barely, you get a slightly better gun but even less armor (4, this is armored car tier) yet it still can't move faster than the slower medium tanks. The speed makes it unable to flank, still only comes with 1x MG. For this you have to shell out 70! points, just 20 less than the Stuart and I would argue a single stuart is worth two 39H's.

That's not the worst bit, the worst bit is that they have zero sustainability. Stuarts and other fast light tanks can do well with their speed and guns on flanks in the later phases but these are just dead weight, if they somehow survive. I get they're not supposed to be great but there is a difference between "Not great" and trash tier. If you really need anti-inf explosives buy some mortars or even a LeiG, both are better for their costs and less prone to exploding if anything looks at them funny.

If anyone wants to explain how they can be used for their current price I'm happy to learn, but I've removed them from my decks and so have most people it would seem.

 

[pbatt]

If anyone wants to explain how they can be used for their current price I'm happy to learn, but I've removed them from my decks and so have most people it would seem.

A cheap piece of armor that forces your opponent to do something about it. Extremely useful when dealing with half-track spam since machine-guns can't touch you, while your pak-36 tends to fall over if charged by more than 1 half-track unless RNGesus is with you.

 

[Edraii]

A cheap piece of armor that forces your opponent to do something about it. Extremely useful when dealing with half-track spam since machine-guns can't touch you, while your pak-36 tends to fall over if charged by more than 1 half-track unless RNGesus is with you.

But if the enemy has the foresight to back up his halftracks with a single piece of AT or armor then the thing wont last long, nor can it do that job very quickly.

While they can do what you say, I'd argue "Cheaply" is the wrong word for it. Fall easilly as they may the Pak36's are cheap enough to get several rather than gambling on one of the baguettes.

 

[Harold Alexander]

Luftlande is very bad in 1x1, semi decent in 2x2 and absolutely OP in 3x3.

 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The French tanks are alright for what they do. If only they wernt so damn slow.

 

[CyberianK]

My main reason for not taking the french tanks are that the slots are full of STUGs.
STUG LIFE!

I would love to use them but with 91 I feel you have to sacrifice early game cards for all the power in the later phases you can get as they are usually fine in the early game.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

@Wolke
@Bishmoo

Those look like very interesting decks; any chance you could please post the strings for them, so that I could try them?

Also, why is the veteran command StuG cheaper than the default variant?

 

[Deuzerre]

I like the 91LL but then I am sort of a hipster anyway.

I like:
- the swarms of Ersatzgruppe that you can send at the start of the battle to secure advanced positions and get you a phase A and B advantage
- the fire support guns for cheap that really boost the Ersatzgruppen
- The towed anti-tank guns: The 5AP gun is great against the swarms of M3 carrier the 3AD can spawn at the start of a battle and there are other good guns in the mix
- The airforce is... Adequate but not great.
- The tanks are on the weak side but if you sue them as a support instead of a breaching tool they're great

However, I have to admit that in phase C it is basically all about trying to hold as much of what you previously gained as possible. I sometimes, around the 30 minutes mark, have to give an attack order to my whole force in sort of a "urraaaa" moment to push on the whole front in order to get the other side on the defensive again, otherwise they can just kill my units one by one.

It is an attrition heavy division, unsuited for Destruction mode, but really "thematic" with a heavy emphasis on Attrition, pushing the enemy with your cheaper troops so that they HAVE to recruit stuff to counter you. You can't let the enemy build up, and you must do everything to keep momentum, otherwise you're screwed. Push everywhere with small forces, entrench when you can to wear down counter attacks, Make the enemy pake dearly for every inch they get back from you. Try to earn as many points by being very aggressive at the start. Always have some artillery for smoke support to prevent the enemy from shooting at you from longer range and to cover your advances.

 

[Max_Damage]

I have no idea how to justify the price of the french baguettes, I feel nothing but disdain for those two tanks. I died a little every time I saw one of their shells bounce of a halftrack, a HALFTRACK. I suppose it could be useful against a deck that has no armored support but even airborne gets locusts (iirc) and even those are probably a better choice than these "Tanks", at least they would be fast enough to flank. Against 3rd or 15th they are nothing but points better spent elsewhere.

The 35R is slower than churchills (13kph vs 15-18) and has an utterly horrible 4ap3he gun and a single MG. It is in no way maneuverable enough to flank anything and it has neither the armor nor the gun to fight anything other than halftrack head on, this is not worth 55 points. I can only justify it's existence if the opponent forgot both is armor and AT support at home. The 39H is a bit better but only barely, you get a slightly better gun but even less armor (4, this is armored car tier) yet it still can't move faster than the slower medium tanks. The speed makes it unable to flank, still only comes with 1x MG. For this you have to shell out 70! points, just 20 less than the Stuart and I would argue a single stuart is worth two 39H's.

That's not the worst bit, the worst bit is that they have zero sustainability. Stuarts and other fast light tanks can do well with their speed and guns on flanks in the later phases but these are just dead weight, if they somehow survive. I get they're not supposed to be great but there is a difference between "Not great" and trash tier. If you really need anti-inf explosives buy some mortars or even a LeiG, both are better for their costs and less prone to exploding if anything looks at them funny.

If anyone wants to explain how they can be used for their current price I'm happy to learn, but I've removed them from my decks and so have most people it would seem.

Hell no. You want 2 slots of these cheap tanks for prolonged 1v1s against the scots. They dont have bazookas on their infantry squads and your cheap tankos will become serious roadblocks for the opponent for only 50 points each haha. They will have to respond with 6 pdr or even 17 pdr or a tank.

If you dont bring vehicles, the scot players has nothing to worry about nad doesnt even need to mix it up one bit, just push you with avre and superior and cheaper infantry.

 

[TGApples]

In smaller games in larger maps (eg. 1v1 Pointe du Hoc) there are 4 roads/channels you can push down. The possibility of a cheap tank means your opponent has to consider where to place AT, and if you go down a road they don't have covered by AT (likely) you'll get a lot of ground captured early. They may be crap, but it needs something with AP to counter. I've had some success ambushing stuarts, and so long as you keep to fast move, they're not that slow.

 

[Wolke]

Hell no. You want 2 slots of these cheap tanks for prolonged 1v1s against the scots. They dont have bazookas on their infantry squads and your cheap tankos will become serious roadblocks for the opponent for only 50 points each haha. They will have to respond with 6 pdr or even 17 pdr or a tank.

If you dont bring vehicles, the scot players has nothing to worry about nad doesnt even need to mix it up one bit, just push you with avre and superior and cheaper infantry.

I don't really feel that way when playing against scots.

Sure, their Rifles don't have AT weapons, but why would you roll those tanks into sub 300m range anway? And who are you playing against who doesn't bring supporting assets with their Rifles at the start?

The scottish officers -do- have piats, they -do- have AT-teams, their phase A AT-Gun actually has decent AP and many bring a crocodile at the start anyway, which has absolutely no issues to deal with your snail-like light tanks and has plenty of other uses as well. And let's not forget the honey stuarts, which cost 10 more than the Panzer 39, but come with 3xMGs, better armor, a better gun and of course are much faster (oh and they are more available per card, too).

Phase A airwar goes to Scots as well, so they could even bring out their HE-rocket bird, due to having access to fighters from the start (calling out a Duck against a Scot to e.g. try and handle a Crocodile or AVRE should be a sure loss of that plane) and the later phases are lost due to Tri-Polsten, even though the Scots only have so few card-slots for planes.

 

[ZhukoDim]

Move BMW: r75 to phase A please. I mean c'mon Eugen!

 

[unibell]

You all forgot zose OP ovv map arty its got in phase a and c , eschpecially zat in phase A. Howefer, it is more ov a lackluster besides zat unt ze fs-jäger.
So in general, it is a meh division vif a few OP units. Ze only reason izis schtill alif is be kause zat zose OP units are blindink vour eis wis ze überbläser

 

[Bersercker]

Was HS 129 buffed recently? It always died in like 2 seconds to interceptors when i used it and pretty often died to ground AA too, so i even stoped using it without escorting fighters. But i've just played a game where i've had two interceptors shooting at it for like 20 seconds before they were suppresed by AA and it didnt die.

 

[RSW2002]

Was HS 129 buffed recently? It always died in like 2 seconds to interceptors when i used it and pretty often died to ground AA too, so i even stoped using it without escorting fighters. But i've just played a game where i've had two interceptors shooting at it for like 20 seconds before they were suppresed by AA and it didnt die.

I haven't seen any sort of balance adjustments in the open beta so far. It still dies very quickly for me.

 

[Bersercker]

I haven't seen any sort of balance adjustments in the open beta so far. It still dies very quickly for me.

Eh, so i guess i was right to blame Eugen for my defeat.

Damn, thats kinda too much RNG for my liking. It was almost like su27m missing all four atgm missiles in wargame.

Although HS 129 should have its toughess and reload speed buffed imo.

 

[RSW2002]

Eh, so i guess i was right to blame Eugen for my defeat.

Damn, thats kinda too much RNG for my liking. It was almost like su27m missing all four atgm missiles in wargame.

Although HS 129 should have its toughess and reload speed buffed imo.

I don't understand why they decided to give it not only Medium agility (which is fine), but also Medium resiliency (sort of fine, but not in combination with the other two) AND a speed THAT low (20 km/h slower than even the slowest Allied non-recon planes, which are already slow to begin with). And ridiculously long reload on top of it. Any one of or two of these is theoretically fine, but the combination out of all four of them makes for a pretty underwhelming unit at a cost of 200 points and a tendency to miss half the shots even on light tanks...

 

[MarcoRossolini]

I hate to say this but with the advent of 2ID the 91.'s position in the game just got a lot tougher.