Sindai said:Little known fact: "sulfer" is actually Texan slang for "hat," leading to many historical misconceptions such as the one displayed in this thread.
:rofl:
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:rofl:
Has anybody counted how much rare materials there are in the USA/ GER/ Russia/Sweden and norway? Whats the need to support ic?
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Petrarca said:
That contributed somewhat to the loss in production, but I really think it was the Japanese sense of pride that really did that portion of their empire in. When they refused to accept German help, both economically and scientifically, in reconstructing the economy after '48, the SRA was ruined forever. Of course, the Germans had their own failures-just look at the Soviet Union before 1941 and after 1944. The Ukraine was never able to get even half of its Soviet 1940 high, which was half of the Tsarist 1916 high. Sad. But hey, I've heard that life in the GAZ is pretty good if you can find a corrupt enough "German"(It's quite sad that even the French have begun to call themselves that).
Fiendix said:
There are 1829 IC, 7082 Energy, 3316 Metals, 1225 Rares, 1094 Oil, and 1643 Manpower globally. Each IC requires 2 Energy, 1 Metal, and .5 Rares.
Sweden has 16 IC, 59 metals, 24 Energy, 6 Rares, and 11 Manpower.
Norway has 10 ICs, 12 Metal, 26 Energy, 5 Rares, and 8 Manpower.
I have calculate without the production bonus of 10% for Germany and 15% for the Allies:
There are 1829 IC, 6433 Energy, 3013 Metal, 1117 Rare, 995 Oil and 1643 Manpower.
Deutschland: 142 IC, 143 ME, 725 NRG, 2 Oil, 49 Rare, 60 MP
Italien: 64 IC, 54 ME, 78 NRG, 0 Oil, 22 Rare, 43 MP
England: 99 IC, 112 ME, 622 NRG, 0 Oil, 25 Rare, 51 MP
Schweiz: 14 IC, 10 ME, 19 NRG, 0 Oil, 5 Rare, 9 MP
Niederlande: 23 IC, 12 ME, 47 NRG, 0 Oil, 6 Rare, 14 MP
Frankreich: 79 IC, 153 ME, 190 NRG, 0 Oil, 27 Rare, 57 MP
Rumänien: 27 IC, 19 ME, 38 NRG, 28 Oil, 9 Rare, 19 MP
Bulgarien: 15 IC, 10 ME, 24 NRG, 0 Oil, 7 Rare, 11 MP
Ungarn: 17 IC, 37 ME, 36 NRG, 2 Oil, 6 Rare, 13 MP
Österreich: 19 IC, 22 ME, 38 NRG, 2 Oil, 8 Rare, 11 MP
Schweden: 18 IC, 57 ME, 23 NRG, 0 Oil, 6 Rare, 11 MP
Belgien: 20 IC, 12 ME, 81 NRG, 0 Oil, 7 Rare, 12 MP
Norwegen: 11 IC, 12 ME, 26 NRG, 0 Oil, 5 Rare, 8 MP
USA: 281 IC, 645 ME, 1.501 NRG, 568 Oil, 167 Rare, 141 MP
Jugoslawien: 25 IC, 40 ME, 37 NRG, 0 Oil, 12 Rare, 18 MP
Griechenland: 15 IC, 17 ME, 19 NRG, 0 Oil, 6 Rare, 11 MP
Albanien: 4 IC, 6 ME, 12 NRG, 3 Oil, 3 Rare, 2 MP
Luxemburg: 5 IC, 21 ME, 10 NRG, 0 Oil, 3 Rare, 2 MP
Portugal: 15 IC, 10 ME, 20 NRG, 0 Oil, 5 Rare, 11 MP
Spanien: 41 IC, 46 ME, 72 NRG, 0 Oil, 28 Rare, 27 MP
Frankreich, England, Belgien, Niederlande, Portugal, Italien: without Colonies
USA: only mainland with Alaska and Hawaii
Spanien: mainland with Balearen and Kanaren
Where is the border between Sowietunion and Polen? The regions on the map are very strange. There belongs Breslau to Polen and Danzig to Deutschland?
Gruß Jimmy
Ex Mudder said:
There is't any metal or rare materiel in Petsamo/Pechenga (whichever name the game uses)?
jimmyricken said:
Looking at those figures (thanks a lot for them!) it looks like there are roughly half as many IC in HOI2 as HOI1.
Hmmm - hope unit costs have halved!
hmm were is germany supposed to get rares from?? I thought it got them from norway? But for 5 rare it seems pointless to invade?
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Hi Fiendix,
I don't now what are all included in rare materials. But I think the only reason to invade Norway was to secure the harbour of Narvik. The swedish iron ore was transported about this harbour in winter, when the Baltic Sea are full with ice (zugefroren).
Gruß Jimmy
I don't now what are all included in rare materials. But I think the only reason to invade Norway was to secure the harbour of Narvik. The swedish iron ore was transported about this harbour in winter, when the Baltic Sea are full with ice (zugefroren).
Gruß Jimmy
Didnt they get heavy water for the bomb from norway?
The point is that germany with 49 rare can support and IC of 100? + 83 if it takes over the whole of europe + 28 if it takes over spain. That would be 160*2 = 320 IC? So the same as USA? Still it has to have a big IC - otherwise it will have problems with russia, uk and USA?
I wonder how that affects its production cababilities. Seems that its been major changed in HOI2.
F
The point is that germany with 49 rare can support and IC of 100? + 83 if it takes over the whole of europe + 28 if it takes over spain. That would be 160*2 = 320 IC? So the same as USA? Still it has to have a big IC - otherwise it will have problems with russia, uk and USA?
I wonder how that affects its production cababilities. Seems that its been major changed in HOI2.
F
TheLand said:
Hmmm ... I thought ICs would've been increased because we have to do so much more with them: Radar Installations, Upgrades and Reenforcements, etc.
Supplies have also become more important ...
From what I can tell from the screenies (not adjusted for "Assembly line" techs etc.):
1 Marine '36 Div. costs 7 IC
1 PzIIf (L-Arm 3) costs 12.3 IC
1 Stuart Mk V (L-Arm 3) costs 18.9 IC
1 Inf '36 costs 5 IC
so not much change there. Maybe this is the way to reduce the number of total divisions that has been talked about so much (in some of the previews at least). Maybe Germany will no longer be able to field 250 Divs, Maybe the Russian 700 Div Moloch will have been curbed ... who knows ...
"Norway was important to Germany for two primary reasons: as a base for U-boats and to secure shipments of iron-ore from Sweden."jimmyricken said:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Weser%FCbung
Fiendix said:
They did. They had a research station in norway wich had also a heavy water plant.
Heisenberg, Hahn and von Weizsäcker among others were there working on the so called "Uranprojekt", the german "Manhattan Project".
But it is said that the physicians there held back valuable research results cause they didn't want the germans to develop the bomb.
Hi,
i am not sure, but I think the research in HOI 2 functions quiet different. There is no IC needed for research? Is that right? When playing Germany in HOI 1, I always spend more than half of IC for research. I always leading in technology. But I always had not enough divisions :wacko: I think in HOI 2 we need more divisions, for example surpressing the partisans and to secure the additional beachheads.
I am not sure, whether the values of materials in the map of the demo are the same as in the released game. Is there enough oil on the map? There is only little oil in Romania. In the demo the german units uses more than 100 oil per day. I think, that there isn't enough oil on the map. But we don't know how many technologies help to increase the IC and the production of raw materials.
Oh, that's possible. I have no presentiment.
Gruß Jimmy
i am not sure, but I think the research in HOI 2 functions quiet different. There is no IC needed for research? Is that right? When playing Germany in HOI 1, I always spend more than half of IC for research. I always leading in technology. But I always had not enough divisions :wacko: I think in HOI 2 we need more divisions, for example surpressing the partisans and to secure the additional beachheads.
I am not sure, whether the values of materials in the map of the demo are the same as in the released game. Is there enough oil on the map? There is only little oil in Romania. In the demo the german units uses more than 100 oil per day. I think, that there isn't enough oil on the map. But we don't know how many technologies help to increase the IC and the production of raw materials.
Oh, that's possible. I have no presentiment.
Gruß Jimmy
jimmyricken said:
Looking at the greyed-out production screen, you're right. No research bar.
Yes, I think 50% is probably about a fair proportion to reduce IC by if research costs no IC. I was generally pretty balanced between units and research.
Though this will mean the common HOI tactic of spending all available IC on research until 1938 won't be possible. Equally this helps stop people like me invading Franch in 1940 with Panther tanks ;-)
Well, it seems that rare materials are choke points of world industry.
The whole concept is really tough to judge. I mean, its really hard to properly combine all that copper, rubber, nickel et al into one resource - you can get whole of world copper, yet in that case you should get no industry running, as you need balanced rare materials. Yet, in the game, it does not matter. Also, rare materials are highly suspectible to substitution, which i guess is not in game.
The whole concept is really tough to judge. I mean, its really hard to properly combine all that copper, rubber, nickel et al into one resource - you can get whole of world copper, yet in that case you should get no industry running, as you need balanced rare materials. Yet, in the game, it does not matter. Also, rare materials are highly suspectible to substitution, which i guess is not in game.
TheLand said:
Don't forget mesquite, jalapenos, decent boots, and angora goats.
Seriously - angora goats were considered a strategic resource and their growth is still subsidized today by the US government. Texas is one of the largest producers in the world.
TheLand said:
Well perhaps not, money which is now a resource comes from IC put into consumer goods...(i forget the name used in the HOI2). So indirectly you still have to assign IC to research, unless you have a trade agreement with another country in which you recieve money...
All that being said i'm sure that its been properly balanced, after all beta staff would have said something if this had been an issue...
More resource tidbits
Better idea would be to NOT invade the Netherlands and trade with them for rares... they have 55 from the Dutch East Indies - Pelembang 10, Oosthaven 10, Padang 10, and Dumai 10 (just south of the 126 in Malaysia) and another 15 the next island over in Semarang.
Looks like taking Malaysia will seriously put a crimp in the UK war effort. They'll lose 126 rare and be left with 30 in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Persoanlly, if the Netherlands is trading with Germany and I'm playing the UK, and at war with Germany, I'd declare war on the Netherlands, annex Indonesia, and set it up as a puppet state. Better an Axis Netherlands w/o rares than a neutral Netherlands funneling 40 rares (80 ICs) into Germany, and no way to block it (land connection Amsterdamn / Berlin).
Perhaps that should be scripted into the game for AI England?
You get ICs from manpower and ICs spent on ALL consumer goods, not just surplus consumer goods.
There also seems to be a massive penalty to ICs when you aren't at war, something like 50% in the screenshots I've seen.
Don't you mean less important? after all, they are no longer needed to reinforce divisions. Besides, it's 4 supplies per IC now, 5 once you get the prodcution control / production planning / assembly line experimentation techs.
Thanks for spotting that... I had missed it. There are actually 83 rares in Houston, +10% (8.3) for 2 levels of machine tools, = 91.3. A third level of machine tools would bump it to 95.5.
Also looks like the US controls half the world's oil supplies and can afford another 50 ICs before running out of rares.
And here's a fun little tidbit for anyone playing a resource or supply heavy country:
[QUOTE="text.csv]
DIP_OFFER_LEND_LEASE;Offer Lend Lease;;;;;;;;;;X
[/QUOTE]
Wonder if that's what France kept getting from England in the AAR. Might mean it's automatic if you are in an alliance. I wonder if the US will have to set up a suplly convoy to get rares from Liberia, if it goes down as a trade from pupper to master, or will Liberia be able to trade it for something useful?
Fiendix said:
Better idea would be to NOT invade the Netherlands and trade with them for rares... they have 55 from the Dutch East Indies - Pelembang 10, Oosthaven 10, Padang 10, and Dumai 10 (just south of the 126 in Malaysia) and another 15 the next island over in Semarang.
Looks like taking Malaysia will seriously put a crimp in the UK war effort. They'll lose 126 rare and be left with 30 in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Persoanlly, if the Netherlands is trading with Germany and I'm playing the UK, and at war with Germany, I'd declare war on the Netherlands, annex Indonesia, and set it up as a puppet state. Better an Axis Netherlands w/o rares than a neutral Netherlands funneling 40 rares (80 ICs) into Germany, and no way to block it (land connection Amsterdamn / Berlin).
Perhaps that should be scripted into the game for AI England?
Iridium said:
You get ICs from manpower and ICs spent on ALL consumer goods, not just surplus consumer goods.
TheLand said:
There also seems to be a massive penalty to ICs when you aren't at war, something like 50% in the screenshots I've seen.
Disgustoid said:
Don't you mean less important? after all, they are no longer needed to reinforce divisions. Besides, it's 4 supplies per IC now, 5 once you get the prodcution control / production planning / assembly line experimentation techs.
JimmyRicken said:
Thanks for spotting that... I had missed it. There are actually 83 rares in Houston, +10% (8.3) for 2 levels of machine tools, = 91.3. A third level of machine tools would bump it to 95.5.
Also looks like the US controls half the world's oil supplies and can afford another 50 ICs before running out of rares.
And here's a fun little tidbit for anyone playing a resource or supply heavy country:
[QUOTE="text.csv]
DIP_OFFER_LEND_LEASE;Offer Lend Lease;;;;;;;;;;X
[/QUOTE]
Wonder if that's what France kept getting from England in the AAR. Might mean it's automatic if you are in an alliance. I wonder if the US will have to set up a suplly convoy to get rares from Liberia, if it goes down as a trade from pupper to master, or will Liberia be able to trade it for something useful?
Really sounds like the demo map is incomplete, quite likely on purpose. I think Johan is smart enough to know that people would be picking it aparts, so, why not have a littel fun?
Anyways, not sure exactly where they are, but Texas had, and to my knowledge still has, the only natural source of Helium in the world. The US Navy had a bunch of blimps during WWII. Arizona should have a large number of rares, lots and lots of copper.
Anyways, not sure exactly where they are, but Texas had, and to my knowledge still has, the only natural source of Helium in the world. The US Navy had a bunch of blimps during WWII. Arizona should have a large number of rares, lots and lots of copper.