8/8 Infantry - The cheapest Soft-Attack Division
- Thread starter Simon_9732495
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Even shitty little minors can afford to outfit at least 1 or 2 tank divisions. Having some armour on the go really isn't that expensive so long as you adjust the templates and the amount of them trained accordingly to the industry you have.
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The funny thing is that one of the best options is heavy tanks for breakthrough. You don't need as many of them to maintain armor higher than the typical enemy piercing ability. Saves a lot of fuel too.
Wait, I think d2 to d4 is not +50% Org damage but +100%?
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Correct, I confused that with strength damage, which is always d2. Org damage is d4 and can become d6.
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8/8 with MOT and LSPART is one of my favorite early game divisions for soft attack and encirclements while still having decent breakthrough and hardness but they fall off hard once infantry tech starts being good enough to pierce the small armor given by light SPG 2.
Here the Text from the Wiki:
I think dicerolls are defined in Hoi4 as:
1d2 = {1,2} equally distributed
1d4 = {1,2,3,4} equally distributed
1d6 = {1,2,3,4,5,6} equally distributed
Then the average of 1d4 is 2.5
The average of 1d6 is 3.5
3.5 is 40% more than 2.5
That means having more Armor than the other has Piercing, would lead to +40% damage.
From: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_units#Combat_stats
I think dicerolls are defined in Hoi4 as:
1d2 = {1,2} equally distributed
1d4 = {1,2,3,4} equally distributed
1d6 = {1,2,3,4,5,6} equally distributed
Then the average of 1d4 is 2.5
The average of 1d6 is 3.5
3.5 is 40% more than 2.5
That means having more Armor than the other has Piercing, would lead to +40% damage.
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I summarized the results in a table. Also added it to first posting.
Table of Soft Attack per 1000 IC of all Templates discussed in this thread:
Table of Soft Attack per 1000 IC of all Templates discussed in this thread:
| Template | Soft Attack | IC Cost | Soft Attack per 1000 IC |
| 8/8 1936 no doctrine | 266,0 | 1575 | 169 |
| 8/8 1939 SFP 5R | 392,7 | 1789 | 220 |
| 8/8 1939 SFP 5L | 397,2 | 1789 | 222 |
| 14/4 1939 SFP 5R | 322,8 | 1561 | 207 |
| 7/2 1939 SFP 5R | 184,3 | 867 | 213 |
| 4/4 1939 SFP 5R | 219,3 | 981 | 224 |
| 8 Mot/8 Mot Art 1939 SFP 5R | 392,7 | 3789 | 104 |
| 8 Mot/8 Mot Rocket Art 1939 SFP 5R | 416,7 | 3857 | 108 |
| 8/8 Rocket Art 1943 SFP RR | 676,6 | 2232 | 303 |
| 8/8 Rocket Art 1946 SFP RR | 727,9 | 2232 | 326 |
| 8 Mot/8 Mot Rocket Art 1946 SFP RR | 789,5 | 4012 | 197 |
| 8 Medium 6 Mot 4 MSPG 1939 MWF 5R | 402,2 | 7799 | 52 |
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Intersting...
Here in the wiki: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_battle#Damage_dealing
It says:
And:
"(1 + 6) / 2 = 3.5" is a {1,2,3,4,5,6} equally distributed dice.
So either the wiki or this tooltip is not 100% correct.
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In the stochastics the probality calculation always includes the "not-happened-case" ( didn't found the right term for it )
In "our" example 1d2 means 0,1,2 !!!!
1d4 = 0,1,2,3,4 -> average = 2.0
1d6 = 0,1,2,3,4,5,6 -> average = 3.0
The result 50% more.
In don't know what has been developed, but this could perhaps be an explanation cause it meets what @Kryndude stated above.
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That cannot be correct.
In what world exists a dice2 with 3 possibilities, a dice4 with 5 possibilities and a dice6 with 7 possibilities?
If it includes 0 it should be 0,1,2,3,4,5 -> average 2.5 but wiki says 3.5 and a dice has 1 to 6 not 0 to 5.
Also in stochastics rolling a d6 dice has 6 outcomes.
Ok, someone could include some fantsy 7th outcome: "dice breaks during rolling"
Ok, someone could include some fantsy 7th outcome: "dice breaks during rolling"
While I have never succeeded, I have indeed tried to break a die on someone's head during a heated moment of D&D.
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In common sense you are absolutly right. When we read d6, we are referring to reality and imagine a dice with 6 sides = 6 outcomes. That meets our "experience". Perhaps we never saw d7, but we conclude = 7 outcomes.
My point is, that we both do not know, what a d6 is for the game-engine. For software, a "dice" is a placeholder for possibilities. We don't know the code used for calculating possibilities in this case.
So I stated, that if the code includes the possibility of "nothing-happened", the outcome-values are equal to the tooltips.
My intention was to show, that there are more ways to calculate, than our own logic and experience will "allow" us to think of.
Thanks for the clarifying post! You had me googling after the first one, lol.
After the second post I can see you explained yourself in the first post, but for some reason it did not click with me like your second one. Weird how a rephrase can help so much.
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I double checked and the wiki is correct; the tooltip is wrong. The tooltip calculates LAND_COMBAT_ORG_ARMOR_ON_SOFT_DICE_SIZE / LAND_COMBAT_ORG_DICE_SIZE - 1 = 50%.
The code doing the actual damage calculation does 1 + <random number> mod <die size>, resulting in outcomes as @Simon_9732495 explained (2.5 and 3.5 average respectively).
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