8/8 Infantry - The cheapest Soft-Attack Division

[Simon_9732495]

You play a country that can't afford Tanks, and want a cheap breakthrough offensive* division with high Soft Attack? *(edit: replace breakthrough with offensive)

Then take a look at this Template:

(Here with 1939 Artillery, 1939 Infantry equipment and Superior Firepower Right until the 5th Tec (Regimental Combat Teams) )

This divison has 393 Soft Attack at a cost of 1789. That's 220 Soft Attack per 1000 IC. I don't think there is a divison with 1939 tec with higher Soft Attack per IC and >30 Org.
[with Superior Firepower Left it is a bit stronger (+2.5 Soft Attack) but I think for other units the right path is better]

14/4 has 323 Soft Attack with 1561 cost -> 207 Soft Attack per 1000 IC
4/4 is a bit stronger per IC cost (224) but has only 219 Soft Attack


If you can afford a bit more IC and want to do quick encirclements after breakthrough you can motorize it:

Spoiler: Template

But it's a lot more expensive now. 104 Soft Attack per 1000 IC


Or with another small 1936 research (called motorize rocket artillery and found in the upper right corner of motorized) you can do this:

Spoiler: Template

Over 400 Soft-Attack and 12 km/h speed with 1939 Tec. And still below 4000 IC cost. 108 Soft Attack per 1000 IC


When you have a bit more time (or rush research) you can get this: (1943 Tec)

Spoiler: Template

303 Soft Attack per 1000 IC!

And if you research 1946 Rocket Technology it looks like this:

Spoiler: Template

326 Soft Attack per 1000 IC! (Each Tier of Rocket Technology adds +5% Soft Attack to Rocket Artillery)


And motorized:

Spoiler: Template

789.5 Soft Attack and 12 km/h and still only 4000 IC. 197 Soft Attack per 1000 IC



Table of Soft Attack per 1000 IC of all Templates discussed in this thread:

Template	Soft Attack	IC Cost	Soft Attack per 1000 IC
8/8 1936 no doctrine	266,0​	1575​	169​
8/8 1939 SFP 5R	392,7​	1789​	220​
8/8 1939 SFP 5L	397,2​	1789​	222​
14/4 1939 SFP 5R	322,8​	1561​	207​
7/2 1939 SFP 5R	184,3​	867​	213​
4/4 1939 SFP 5R	219,3​	981​	224​
8 Mot/8 Mot Art 1939 SFP 5R	392,7​	3789​	104​
8 Mot/8 Mot Rocket Art 1939 SFP 5R	416,7​	3857​	108​
8/8 Rocket Art 1943 SFP RR	676,6​	2232​	303​
8/8 Rocket Art 1946 SFP RR	727,9​	2232​	326​
8 Mot/8 Mot Rocket Art 1946 SFP RR	789,5​	4012​	197​
8 Medium 6 Mot 4 MSPG 1939 MWF 5R	402,2​	7799​	52​

 

[Zauberelefant]

Interesting, but I have to rain on your parade. Its low breakthrough and high softness without armour mean this unit will bleed manpower and costly artillery equipment when attacking anything but the very weakest of formations.

This means you might be better of investing in tanks.

 

[Kryndude]

Armor doubles the org damage output and halves the damage you receive, without it you'll be surprised at how poorly units perform as a breakthrough division.

 

[Eh up me duck]

Interesting stuff.

One important thing you haven't mentioned is the advantage these units have in terrain compared to armoured units. Particularly later in the war, mobile divisions become much less worthwhile and it becomes a game of stacking up soft attack in the right places, which can be very hard outside of riverless flat provinces.

How do they compare in terms of cost to comparable 40W armoured/SP Art divisions?

 

[King Of Heroes]

I do use such type of division as a trench-breaker(calling it a breakthrough division is a real stretch) early game before my medium tank production allows for proper armor divisions, It seems better than attacking with 20w all over.

 

[Simon_9732495]

I know that Tanks are better for offensive, due to Hardness, Armor and Breakthrough.
But I think there are enough situations, where tanks are not an option, to think about how to do your offensive with Infantry.

The units with 1943 (or even 1946) Tech I just added to show what is possible. (I compared units by Soft Attack per Width per IC Cost)
If you go to 1943 and want to drive offensives you should probably get Tanks at some point.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Interesting stuff.

Thank you.

How do they compare in terms of cost to comparable 40W armoured/SP Art divisions?

1939 Mediums (not upgraded), 1939 Guns, 1939 Arty, Mobile Warfare R 5 Techs:

52 Soft Attack per 1000 IC
They cost about 4 times more.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Thank you.




1939 Mediums (not upgraded), 1939 Guns, 1939 Arty, Mobile Warfare R 5 Techs:
View attachment 580513
52 Soft Attack per 1000 IC
They cost about 4 times more.

Given the effect of armour and breakthrough, that's perfectly reasonable.

 

[Eh up me duck]

Thank you.




1939 Mediums (not upgraded), 1939 Guns, 1939 Arty, Mobile Warfare R 5 Techs:
View attachment 580513
52 Soft Attack per 1000 IC
They cost about 4 times more.

It's interesting that they only have 10 more soft attack. Regardless of cost, generally speaking I want these breakthrough units to be concentrating soft attack at a given weak point in the enemy line, it looks like infantry/artillery are just as effective at this.

I might do a Germany run this weekend with no tanks and simply using art/inf as a breakthrough unit. Obviously their breakthrough is far lower than armoured units but usually I find that these concentrated attacks are very short affairs where casualties aren't really an issue, so I'd be interested to see how that plays out in game.

 

[agonistes]

I know that Tanks are better for offensive, due to Hardness, Armor and Breakthrough.
But I think there are enough situations, where tanks are not an option, to think about how to do your offensive with Infantry.

The units with 1943 (or even 1946) Tech I just added to show what is possible. (I compared units by Soft Attack per Width per IC Cost)
If you go to 1943 and want to drive offensives you should probably get Tanks at some point.

I use 4/4 often. Nothing wrong with this type of division.

 

[Harin]

It's interesting that they only have 10 more soft attack. Regardless of cost, generally speaking I want these breakthrough units to be concentrating soft attack at a given weak point in the enemy line, it looks like infantry/artillery are just as effective at this.

I might do a Germany run this weekend with no tanks and simply using art/inf as a breakthrough unit. Obviously their breakthrough is far lower than armoured units but usually I find that these concentrated attacks are very short affairs where casualties aren't really an issue, so I'd be interested to see how that plays out in game.

If you back up the infantry breakthrough units with some motorized divisions, you can sometimes get some deep penetrations in places like Russia. Places where enemy divisions are plentiful in a tight space, like France, it can be hit or miss.

I have had some fun games playing Germany with no or very few tanks, out of curiosity's sake.

 

[Harin]

Thank you.




1939 Mediums (not upgraded), 1939 Guns, 1939 Arty, Mobile Warfare R 5 Techs:
View attachment 580513
52 Soft Attack per 1000 IC
They cost about 4 times more.

Thanks for taking the time to do this research. I have played without tanks and have been curious what the trade-offs were.

 

[noobermenschen]

I use 4/4 often. Nothing wrong with this type of division.

I use a 5 INF/3 ART/1 AA and have had good luck with these. They seem to get punked pretty easily by terrain penalties, though they are also good on defense when dug in.

 

[Cavalry]

The line arty templates are used very much when the game is release. Now arty is nerfed. It can work good if you can get number advantage (attack from multiple provinces), but sometimes it is not easy to get number advantage.

Another template to try is the below. Look at the Org, the breakthrough, the harness, the HP, make sure you get armor bonus, get 1-2 more tank if needed. In that game the enemy infantry only have piercing about 5. Because of high Org, high Breakthrough, hardness.. you can win even without number advantage. The attack stats is only part of the picture. Many time enemy division was knocked out and need to wait for reinforcement so the attacker can enjoy numbers. You can add artillery here but the template show that one poor country save all the IC for tanks.

Note that it is not just for poor minors. It is a very powerful force as a group of 24 tank divisions.

 

[Simon_9732495]

... they are also good on defense when dug in.

I think I saw in a multiplayer game a 8/8 division (I think from Ireland) defending El-Alamein against German Tanks. Does that make sense?

 

[Matoro_TBS]

These divisions are very costly in attacking, but as defender they are incredibly good. Since breakthrough in general is quite low stat, division such as this just blasts away any attacking infantry or low hardness motorized and probably even light tanks. If you add decent amount of AT, you can also make it a tank-killer.
Especially against AI high soft attack defense divisions make them just bleed through their entire manpower pool in months.

 

[Voigt]

I'd rather use 10 or 5 Inf, Support Arty, Support Rocket Arty, Engineer, AA2. With this you have a good mix of Org, Soft Attack, Airattack/Piercing and terrain mobility for cheap.

If I need to concentrate lots of SA in few divisions (naval invasions, landing beside a port) a 8/8 division is also fine.

For moblity I like to use 8 Mot, 8 LSPARTY, they have very high soft attack, still good breaktrough and often good enough armour. Espeically if you later mix in 7 Mot, 8 LSPARTY, 1MARM. Gives you lots of Soft Attack for Cheap (you can convert old captured Light Tanks), which you can rise even further with +5 gun variants.

 

[mursolini]

What's with this "can't afford tanks" claims?
Larm3 is 600/brigade, Marm -700, and 3-4 will double cost of your division, but you will get more or less equal breakthrough to attack value to most unoptimized divisions.

You usually need just 3-4 divisions to force a breakthrough.

Armor is just vastly more efficient, even if used in small numbers.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Armor doubles the org damage output...

I'm not sure if I understand this. Could you please expain.

 

[Kryndude]

I'm not sure if I understand this. Could you please expain.

Oops, it's 150% not 200%, got confused with damage reduction. If your unit has more armor than enemy piercing, that unit does 150% damage to organization.