8:1 still lose attack

[Gizmo-12]

Hello Gents,

I spend may more hours trying to understand things. I still don't. I see green numbers when attacking until 90ish and then, bloob, lost, all troppes warp back.

I tryed to use the auto attack or to move massive 8:1 armys with right click into provinces, but all got defeted. Supplys were there (in that region), no neemy air force, it was just Soldiers vs Soldiers.
On the sceenshots you can see the fatigue is up, but when I lauched the frist attack it wasn't. I just tryed to push though, someone told me that would be the way...

Now please help me, all infos on screenshots. If you need more details please let me know.

Regards,
Gizmo-12

All swastikas removed - Secret Master

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Supplys were there (in that region)

According to this - no longer are (which is all that matters).

On the sceenshots you can see the fatigue is up, but when I lauched the frist attack it wasn't

You mean to say that equipment shortage is recent? Doesn't looks like it - check stockpiles; chances are: you're out of artillery, so your divisions have no punch.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Your divisions are all 43 width, which means you're taking massive over combat width penalties and your divisions can't do much with that.

 

[bitmode]

If you want to learn what is going on in a battle, you need to click on its icon (i.e. the red "56" in your last screenshot). For example your infantry research does not mean much if your divisions are not fully equipped with the latest equipment. Only the battle detail screen shows what is really going on. Besides the reasons already mentioned, you are attacking a mountain province.

 

[Secret Master]

Posting pictures with swastikas is against forum rules. I've deleted all of the pictures in the initial post.

If you want more assistance with your problem, use screenshots without swastikas. And make sure you read the forum rules before posting.

 

[Gizmo-12]

According to this - no longer are (which is all that matters).

Ok, but as I said, they were there. I just ran out, cause of multiple attacks with no success. By that means it can't be the major reason.

You mean to say that equipment shortage is recent? Doesn't looks like it - check stockpi

Indeed, there are artillerys lacking. But the strenght of the divisions in the 8:1 province fight were all between 70-100%, so still I do have more power in battle. Also I guess that's not the big problem here.

Your divisions are all 43 width, which means you're taking massive over combat width penalties and your divisions can't do much with that.

I believe that this must be the reason then, but I dont know where I see the width of a division, how can I shorten them?

If you want to learn what is going on in a battle, you need to click on its icon (i.e. the red "56" in your last screenshot). For example your infantry research does not mean much if your divisions are not fully equipped with the latest equipment. Only the battle detail screen shows what is really going on. Besides the reasons already mentioned, you are attacking a mountain province.

I added a screenshot (Details) of the fight 13:2 this time. Can you tell the issues better from there?

Posting pictures with swastikas is against forum rules. I've deleted all of the pictures in the initial post.

If you want more assistance with your problem, use screenshots with swastikas. And make sure you read the forum rules before posting.

Sorry Sir, I must have missed that on the rules. Removed them and attached the clean files again.

 

[George Parr]

There are multiple issues at play:

First of, the enemy has air superiority, which weakens your troops. It also is dug in, which gives it defensive bonuses (see the small shovel next to their units), while you get severe maluses because you are attacking into a mountain provice. Your lack of strength also lowers your combat value further. If it is due to a lack of artillery, you lose a ton of your breakthrough, which is the defensive value of your attack. Right now your units suffer, because your attack value is far belowf the defensive value of the enemy, while your breakthrough (= defense of your attacking units) is much lower than their attack value. Which means you don't do much while taking quite a bit of damage yourself. If you hover the mouse over the numbers in the combat screen, you get an exaplanation how these numbers end up the way they are.

Of your eight divisions, only three are currently fighting against two divisions of the enemy, because there is only a width of 120 and three of your units already excede that number. In fact, your three divisions are weakened further by this system, because you excede the 120 allowed due to having 3x43 = 129, which causes a penalty. As for what width is, it's the stat called Gefechtsbreite in your division setup. Every Infantry battalion adds a width of 2, artillery a width of 3, so in this case you would be better off removing one artillery. That should also help dealing with your lack of artillery.

The counter is indeed a buit counter-intuitive, because it looks at all the divisions in play. It sees your eight divisions compared to the enemy's 2, and thinks that should put the odds in your favour. The problem is, your three divisions that can actually fight the enemy right now aren't doing much to hurt the enemy. And if they drop out of the fight, and none of your other divisions manage to step in, you might lose the battle, even if the odds given by the little counter seemed to be in your favour.

There are times where throwing a ton of troops at a smaller enemy can work out, even if the combat-numbers look like in your screen, but most of the time it is not a good idea to keep such an attack running if your offense and defense numbers are that low. Attacking headfirst into a mountain-provice from just one direction rarely works either. Especially if the enemy is rested (high org and strength) and had time to dig in.

 

[donald dawkins]

Ok, but as I said, they were there. I just ran out, cause of multiple attacks with no success. By that means it can't be the major reason.

Indeed, there are artillerys lacking. But the strenght of the divisions in the 8:1 province fight were all between 70-100%, so still I do have more power in battle. Also I guess that's not the big problem here.

I believe that this must be the reason then, but I dont know where I see the width of a division, how can I shorten them?


I added a screenshot (Details) of the fight 13:2 this time. Can you tell the issues better from there?


Sorry Sir, I must have missed that on the rules. Removed them and attached the clean files again.

i think I know the issues you’re having

firstly, the enemy appears to have air superiority, which means you will face a flat de buff to your land army combat ability. I am not sure what percent, however it is quite significant, regardless whether or not they are using cas. Therefore, you need to have anti air in your divisions to offset the debuff (sadly your division companies picture does not load for me so I cannot see if you have AA in your divisions). You need about 2 AA brigades to counter air superiority de buffs By about 50%.

Second, you are suffering 3% attrition in your attacking divisions, this may not seem a lot, but this again will give you a flat de buff to your divisional combat ability. This can be the result of poor supply, or attacking on bad terrain, it depends on the divisional composition (tanks get a flat 40% attrition fighting in mountains for example, regardless of supply.)

third, your attacking divisions are not fully supplied, meaning they get a massive combat de buff when fighting. You can see this by the yellow bar underneath the green bar on your divisions.

so the following solutions are required.

1) reduce the number of your divisions/ stop attacking until your divisions are fully supplied
2) put Aa brigades in your divisions if you have not done so already
3) attempt the get air superiority if possible
4) reduce the number of divisions you have in that theatre/ add logistics companies/ add infrastructure/ stop the massive amount of enemy strategic bombers in that theatre from operating, to prevent damage to supply and infrastructur, and remove enemy air superiority.

once these solutions are done, you can attempt the tactic of reinforce meming/ divisional de orging your enemy division. To do this, you need to cycle your attacking divisions so that they are not all attacking at the same time, but the battle is going on indefinitely. Send about 2 divisions on each tile to attack that same enemy tile, and once they begin to de-org send another two unused divisions in. While the two new divisions are attacking stop your tired divisions from attacking and wait for them to re-org (the green bar above the orange bar underneath the division). When the reinforcing divisions begin to get tired, send in your now fully/ partlyrested up divisions (or two other unused divisions) into the battle and stop your tired divisions from attacking. Keep doing this until the enemy divisions de-org.

in easier to understand steps:

1) send 2 divisions in from each tile to attack (they must be 40 width divisions, send 4 in from each tile if they are 20 width divisions)
2) when the battle starts failing/when your attacking divisions start de-orging send in another batch of two divisions from each tile so that they join the battle
3) tell your de-orging divisions to stop attacking once your reinforcing divisions join the battle.
4) keep repeating this process until you win the tile.

these turns the battle into a war of attrition, where by constantly keeping the battle going indefinitely you prevent the enemy divisions from recovering their organisation, allowing you to eventually take The position. Note that this works better with air supremacy and cas, which adds to the org damage over time. This is a costly way of taking a tile, but due to the enemies excessive air superiority and your lack of supply/effective armor, the only way.


i hope this helps

 

[gianlucad]

Remove an artillery brigade and maybe one infantry brigade from your template to lower the division width to 40. It'll increase the units that are engaged from 2 to 3 and help on your attack.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Ok, but as I said, they were there. I just ran out, cause of multiple attacks with no success.

Each division consumes a set amount of supplies, that can only be noticeably decreased if division is not at full strength (manpower, more specifically). Division in combat increases its supply use by 50% (idle one decreases by 5%).

Indeed, there are artillerys lacking. But the strenght of the divisions in the 8:1 province fight were all between 70-100%, so still I do have more power in battle. Also I guess that's not the big problem here.

Division attack depends on equipment it currently has: it might have 80% strength, but it'll still be missing all artillery (pretty much like all your divisions in training), and thus missing more than half of its soft attack. If you think that's not a big problem look at your last screenshot: your three 43w divisions combined have less attack than a single 20w enemy division; hover over their attack value and you'll see that their base is way lower than what you got in designer - because of equipment shortage.

I think, you should watch this or something similar to get a basic idea of what is going on first.

 

[Gizmo-12]

There are multiple issues at play:

First of, the enemy has air superiority, which weakens your troops. It also is dug in, which gives it defensive bonuses (see the small shovel next to their units), while you get severe maluses because you are attacking into a mountain provice. Your lack of strength also lowers your combat value further. If it is due to a lack of artillery, you lose a ton of your breakthrough, which is the defensive value of your attack. Right now your units suffer, because your attack value is far belowf the defensive value of the enemy, while your breakthrough (= defense of your attacking units) is much lower than their attack value. Which means you don't do much while taking quite a bit of damage yourself. If you hover the mouse over the numbers in the combat screen, you get an exaplanation how these numbers end up the way they are.

Of your eight divisions, only three are currently fighting against two divisions of the enemy, because there is only a width of 120 and three of your units already excede that number. In fact, your three divisions are weakened further by this system, because you excede the 120 allowed due to having 3x43 = 129, which causes a penalty. As for what width is, it's the stat called Gefechtsbreite in your division setup. Every Infantry battalion adds a width of 2, artillery a width of 3, so in this case you would be better off removing one artillery. That should also help dealing with your lack of artillery.

The counter is indeed a buit counter-intuitive, because it looks at all the divisions in play. It sees your eight divisions compared to the enemy's 2, and thinks that should put the odds in your favour. The problem is, your three divisions that can actually fight the enemy right now aren't doing much to hurt the enemy. And if they drop out of the fight, and none of your other divisions manage to step in, you might lose the battle, even if the odds given by the little counter seemed to be in your favour.

There are times where throwing a ton of troops at a smaller enemy can work out, even if the combat-numbers look like in your screen, but most of the time it is not a good idea to keep such an attack running if your offense and defense numbers are that low. Attacking headfirst into a mountain-provice from just one direction rarely works either. Especially if the enemy is rested (high org and strength) and had time to dig in.

Thanks for the detailled explenation, I found the values now and can clearly understand the game waaay more then before.

i think I know the issues you’re having

firstly, the enemy appears to have air superiority, which means you will face a flat de buff to your land army combat ability. I am not sure what percent, however it is quite significant, regardless whether or not they are using cas. Therefore, you need to have anti air in your divisions to offset the debuff (sadly your division companies picture does not load for me so I cannot see if you have AA in your divisions). You need about 2 AA brigades to counter air superiority de buffs By about 50%.

Second, you are suffering 3% attrition in your attacking divisions, this may not seem a lot, but this again will give you a flat de buff to your divisional combat ability. This can be the result of poor supply, or attacking on bad terrain, it depends on the divisional composition (tanks get a flat 40% attrition fighting in mountains for example, regardless of supply.)

third, your attacking divisions are not fully supplied, meaning they get a massive combat de buff when fighting. You can see this by the yellow bar underneath the green bar on your divisions.

so the following solutions are required.

1) reduce the number of your divisions/ stop attacking until your divisions are fully supplied
2) put Aa brigades in your divisions if you have not done so already
3) attempt the get air superiority if possible
4) reduce the number of divisions you have in that theatre/ add logistics companies/ add infrastructure/ stop the massive amount of enemy strategic bombers in that theatre from operating, to prevent damage to supply and infrastructur, and remove enemy air superiority.

once these solutions are done, you can attempt the tactic of reinforce meming/ divisional de orging your enemy division. To do this, you need to cycle your attacking divisions so that they are not all attacking at the same time, but the battle is going on indefinitely. Send about 2 divisions on each tile to attack that same enemy tile, and once they begin to de-org send another two unused divisions in. While the two new divisions are attacking stop your tired divisions from attacking and wait for them to re-org (the green bar above the orange bar underneath the division). When the reinforcing divisions begin to get tired, send in your now fully/ partlyrested up divisions (or two other unused divisions) into the battle and stop your tired divisions from attacking. Keep doing this until the enemy divisions de-org.

in easier to understand steps:

1) send 2 divisions in from each tile to attack (they must be 40 width divisions, send 4 in from each tile if they are 20 width divisions)
2) when the battle starts failing/when your attacking divisions start de-orging send in another batch of two divisions from each tile so that they join the battle
3) tell your de-orging divisions to stop attacking once your reinforcing divisions join the battle.
4) keep repeating this process until you win the tile.

these turns the battle into a war of attrition, where by constantly keeping the battle going indefinitely you prevent the enemy divisions from recovering their organisation, allowing you to eventually take The position. Note that this works better with air supremacy and cas, which adds to the org damage over time. This is a costly way of taking a tile, but due to the enemies excessive air superiority and your lack of supply/effective armor, the only way.


i hope this helps

Thank you also very much, I started to use that trick in order to get the organisation of strong defenders slowly down until they broke.

Each division consumes a set amount of supplies, that can only be noticeably decreased if division is not at full strength (manpower, more specifically). Division in combat increases its supply use by 50% (idle one decreases by 5%).
Division attack depends on equipment it currently has: it might have 80% strength, but it'll still be missing all artillery (pretty much like all your divisions in training), and thus missing more than half of its soft attack. If you think that's not a big problem look at your last screenshot: your three 43w divisions combined have less attack than a single 20w enemy division; hover over their attack value and you'll see that their base is way lower than what you got in designer - because of equipment shortage.

I think, you should watch this or something similar to get a basic idea of what is going on first.

Special thanks to you, I watched that video and I have to agree before all these messages I got from you guys, I didn't understand shit. I cleared many locations now and get more fun in the game.

Thanks to you guys! Very nice community Forum!