716. Infanterie thread

[CyberianK]

Hey everyone,

the wait till tomorrow is so painful that I opened this thread at least. Here you can see a preview of 716:

skip to 1:05:30 (shout out and thanks to Midgeman for doing this subscribe if you like his content)

Recon: very basic but Fusiliers are always nice
Infantry: Nice availability of Osttruppen in A. Italian Volunteers OneStar in B and TwoStar in C.
Tanks: Lacking any good or even medium tanks later but nice double turreted Infantry tank in A
Support: Flamertank and lots of IG18 in A
AT: One Pak 40 in A, vetted 88s in C
AA: Good AA with plenty of Quad20 plus 88s
Arty: Lorraine in A, cheap Wurfrahmen in B but only one per card, cheap and plentyful offmap in B
Air: Nice 3x2 OneStar Fighters else nothing exceptional

I like this division this is the one I was waiting for. Starts with 100 so hopefully can push back some against aggressive allies. Still can't really compete with Inf from 2nd Inf and a few others. And migt be very tough that its lacking any half decent tank optons it might have the worst tank options out of all divisions.

Still we might see some changes since this is an old build.
Feel free to discuss 716 Eichenlaub (oak leaf) here

 

[Ddraig5400]

Hey everyone,

the wait till tomorrow is so painful that I opened this thread at least. Here you can see a preview of 716:

skip to 1:05:30 (shout out and thanks to Midgeman for doing this subscribe if you like his content)

Recon: very basic but Fusiliers are always nice
Infantry: Nice availability of Osttruppen in A. Italian Volunteers OneStar in B and TwoStar in C.
Tanks: Lacking any good or even medium tanks later but nice double turreted Infantry tank in A
Support: Flamertank and lots of IG18 in A
AT: One Pak 40 in A, vetted 88s in C
AA: Good AA with plenty of Quad20 plus 88s
Arty: Lorraine in A, cheap Wurfrahmen in B but only one per card, cheap and plentyful offmap in B
Air: Nice 3x2 OneStar Fighters else nothing exceptional

I like this division this is the one I was waiting for. Starts with 100 so hopefully can push back some against aggressive allies. Still can't really compete with Inf from 2nd Inf and a few others. And migt be very tough that its lacking any half decent tank optons it might have the worst tank options out of all divisions.

Still we might see some changes since this is an old build.
Feel free to discuss 716 Eichenlaub (oak leaf) here

The 716th looks very promising. But what about the phase A Ju 88 S with the 14x 70kg bombs? That'll probably be used in similar fashion to the 6th Airbornes Mosquito pathfinder.

 

[D-M]

Sitkrieg division...

 

[CyberianK]

The 716th looks very promising. But what about the phase A Ju 88 S with the 14x 70kg bombs? That'll probably be used in similar fashion to the 6th Airbornes Mosquito pathfinder.

Yeah I am not sure.
Its even more points and it lacks Napalm so its not possible to block a road.

I am just realizing this deck has no tanks with double digit AP and no tanks with double digit armor

 

[Ddraig5400]

Yeah I am not sure.
Its even more points and it lacks Napalm so its not possible to block a road.

I am just realizing this deck has no tanks with double digit AP and no tanks with double digit armor

Yeah, the key weakness of this division looks to be its armour, although the presence of repurposed French Char B1 Bis' is neat if only for the history. It looks like it's going to have a great time in the AT and AA departments, while still being strong in infantry.

As for the Ju 88, I guess a better comparison would be to phase A off-map artillery, putting a lot of suppression on a lot of infantry.

 

[Gethsemani]

That FlaK 88 in A will undoubtedly be able to cause some headaches for the Allies. As D-M said, they are a Sitzkrieg division and they look like they will excel at setting up a hardened front and then slugging it out with all comers. Their relative lack of organic AT with their line infantry is likely to cause them headaches and if their line gets breached it looks like they have absolutely nothing to counterattack with to regain ground. Seems like a good rendition of the actual 716th and its' intended role in Normandy and a flavorful addition to the game.

 

[CyberianK]

I'll probably skip phase A 88 in favor of the phase B 88 with veterancy and double availability.

I guess you might need the 88 as added AT if your regular AT gets eaten. If this deck goes out of AT it is toast.

 

[Makko]

The Char B1 looks to be about 50% too expensive considering it has bad armor and some of the worst speed in game.

 

[D-M]

The Char B1 looks to be about 50% too expensive considering it has bad armor and some of the worst speed in game.

I 'd see how the 47mm + 75mm combo works before considering any price changes.

 

[Sotahullu]

The Char B1 looks to be about 50% too expensive considering it has bad armor and some of the worst speed in game.

It is slow but it packs a punch and has good enough armor. Good enough for infantry support.

Althought the fact that B1 has the same road speed as the R35 (55km/h) is either overoptimistic or R35 is just slow. But 13km/h on terrain...

 

[Makko]

I'm sure if it manages to be in the right place at the right time it will be effective (Its like a Somua and an IG 18 had a mutant baby) but... I really doubt that will happen often as it moves at the speed of an AT gun.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Char B1 bis, awesome!

 

[Wehrwolf81]

This Division will get a lot of problems in A, I think. Hardly capable anti-tank units, except for one single pak 40, the PaK 37 sucks.. at least you get a FLAK 88 in A, if you're in a pinch. But you will have to care for it, if the FLAK is lost in A, so are you.... Just overpriced and crappy tanks in all game phases, but at least the latter is to be expected of an infantry division, allthough not even STUGs. The Artillery and Air support are gladly quite strong. So you might be able to stun and delay Allied phase A pusher divisions. In phase B you need to invest in PAKs and Artillery.
I also really wonder why the Italian volunteers get veterancy?! After all Italians in WW2 really weren't known to be good/tough soldiers. As a sidenote they already sucked terribly in WW1 and even lost a decade before against Ethiopian tribals. No offense, but these are historic facts and in WW2 they lost their colonial chunks in Africa, lost in Greece and they didn't even fight in Italy during the Invasion of Sicily. As soon as there was hardship, they switched sides. Giving them veterancy bonus is beyond me, really. German soldiers thought very little of the fighting capabilities of their Italian "Allies" during the whole war for a reason.
Finally one will have to play very much defensive with this Division.

 

[Graphic]

Ive been waiting to get my hands on these guys for months. Should be fun

 

[Sotahullu]

I also really wonder why the Italian volunteers get veterancy?! After all Italians in WW2 really weren't known to be good/tough soldiers. As a sidenote they already sucked terribly in WW1 and even lost a decade before against Ethiopian tribals. No offense, but these are historic facts and in WW2 they lost their colonial chunks in Africa, lost in Greece and they didn't even fight in Italy during the Invasion of Sicily. As soon as there was hardship, they switched sides. Giving them veterancy bonus is beyond me, really. German soldiers thought very little of the fighting capabilities of their Italian "Allies" during the whole war for a reason.

Yeah, you just descripted everything that is wrong in history books about Italy during WW2 and are more related to stereotypes then actual history.

And about 95% problems Italians had were leadership related (both political and military) during the war, not the soldiers fault.


But on a real note, I have never heard there being Italian volunteers at the Normandy. Any Italian volunteers there was served in Italy or at the Balkans as far I know.

 

[Makko]

Well the only Italians still fighting for the Axis at that point would have been pretty damn determined

 

[Hellequin]

This Division will get a lot of problems in A, I think. Hardly capable anti-tank units, except for one single pak 40, the PaK 37 sucks.. at least you get a FLAK 88 in A, if you're in a pinch. But you will have to care for it, if the FLAK is lost in A, so are you.... Just overpriced and crappy tanks in all game phases, but at least the latter is to be expected of an infantry division, allthough not even STUGs. The Artillery and Air support are gladly quite strong. So you might be able to stun and delay Allied phase A pusher divisions. In phase B you need to invest in PAKs and Artillery.
I also really wonder why the Italian volunteers get veterancy?! After all Italians in WW2 really weren't known to be good/tough soldiers. As a sidenote they already sucked terribly in WW1 and even lost a decade before against Ethiopian tribals. No offense, but these are historic facts and in WW2 they lost their colonial chunks in Africa, lost in Greece and they didn't even fight in Italy during the Invasion of Sicily. As soon as there was hardship, they switched sides. Giving them veterancy bonus is beyond me, really. German soldiers thought very little of the fighting capabilities of their Italian "Allies" during the whole war for a reason.
Finally one will have to play very much defensive with this Division.

As Sotahullu said the poor performance of Italian troops during the war was almost entirely due to poor leadership from junior or senior levels.

Certain italian troops aquitted themselves well in a number of engagements throughout the war. As a general rule one group of humans aren't magically better than another. The difference between them in combat is often due to leadership, motivation, education and their home environmental factors. The Italian army in the second world war suffered from much of this.

 

[EUG_MadMat]

Well the only Italians still fighting for the Axis at that point would have been pretty damn determined

Well, most weren't really, only volunteering to escape misery in a German POW camp.
But a few were indeed motivated: while the many Italian drivers & mechanics in the 716. ID surrendered at the first opportunity, the so-called "Bersaglieri Regiment" (936. Gren.-Rgt., if I recall) accounted well for itself, launching the only determined counter-attacks by this division on D-Day.
Some 500 Italian SS volunteers in the 17. SS also earned praises from their commander when they were returned (well, the survivors) to Italy after Normandy, in order to join Mussolini's Folgore. There were also some in the 12. SS-Panzer if I recall.

 

[Makko]

Well, most weren't really, only volunteering to escape misery in a German POW camp.
But a few were indeed motivated: while the many Italian drivers & mechanics in the 716. ID surrendered at the first opportunity, the so-called "Bersaglieri Regiment" (936. Gren.-Rgt., if I recall) accounted well for itself, launching the only determined counter-attacks by this division on D-Day.
Some 500 Italian SS volunteers in the 17. SS also earned praises from their commander when they were returned (well, the survivors) to Italy after Normandy, in order to join Mussolini's Folgore. There were also some in the 12. SS-Panzer if I recall.

I guess the "Frei" is in an "Arbeit macht" kind of a sense then

 

[EUG_MadMat]

I guess the "Frei" is in an "Arbeit macht" kind of a sense then

No, in this case they are real "Freiwillige", that is volunteers.

I don't have my notes here, but from memory, the 716. ID's 936. Grenadier-Regiment was nicknamed "Bersaglieri Regiment" because most (or a good number) of its soldiers were former Bersaglieris (or Italian soldiers from other arms) whom m had asked the Germans to let them keep fighting with them, be it under their uniform.